Clock Crew

Clock Crew Archives => The Ol' Dusty Trail => Policy => Topic farted by: PineappleClock on August 22, 2011, 02:01:57 PM

Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: PineappleClock on August 22, 2011, 02:01:57 PM
We've had the Clockification policy / procedure in place for a while now, and while it was automated for a short while, it has mostly always been a manual process. The staff has had a couple of suggestions on what to do with clockification, but we would like to hear your suggestions so that we can put something in the charter regarding it.

The policy is sort of loose right now and needs some formalizing.

The main questions are:

1. Do you think there needs to be a policy in place for granting "Clockhood" to new members?

2. How should that policy work? Should it be based on merit (the ability to create movies) or some sort of democratic vote, or a combination of both?
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Sinister Clock on August 22, 2011, 02:11:47 PM
I think that the current system of being clockified after six months or whatever is fine. But I also feel we should have a system in pace for fast tracking the ones who are actively making flash and are not Rupee Clock. Being a clock should mean that you are actively contributing to the Clock Crew community in some way or if you are called Sinister Clock.

Also posts should not be contribution, I mean like Flash or films or plays or something clock related.

EDIT: Never mind, just burn the motherfucker down.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: AstronautClock on August 22, 2011, 02:42:06 PM
I think clocks should be chosen and not be automated like me.

but not just on flash making ability, though it should surely speed up the process. I think its more how you are on the forums since thats our main place to hangout.
so I think a poll once a month or whenever we feel fit should be good
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: AnkhClock on August 22, 2011, 03:06:14 PM
Have a Clockify button on people's userpages that only official Clocks can use. If a person gets enough "Clockify" votes (I dunno, say 25) they are automatically promoted to Clock. If a person is unable to get the required number of votes, they become a Clock anyway after six months (maybe).
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: PirateClock on August 22, 2011, 03:18:37 PM
I think it's dumb to be honest. Non of us had to earn our clock status and we made flash regardless. To be honest if i had to "earn" my place here i would probably never have joined. Same reason why i wouldn't join a fraternity, that and it's fucking lame.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Chalk Clock on August 22, 2011, 03:21:35 PM
I liked the old clockificastion system. it made you feel as if you really needed to contribute something or at least not be a total ass bag in order to get clocked. It caused shitty posters to shape up or gtfo, and it felt like the title of official clock meant something. now a a days it seems to be more of a formality.

we need a poll on this.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: PirateClock on August 22, 2011, 03:22:03 PM
btw i totally thought this was the grid or something, turns out its not so the "us" part doesn't really apply here but whatever.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: BinaryClock on August 22, 2011, 03:43:07 PM
I think the idea of earning Clockification is silly. Anybody can be a clock and all are welcome to, but being respected in the community is what's really important.

Anyway the only use we had for the status difference was when we wanted to put things in to the Top 50, we made a thread in the Green Door. It seems like we could do just the same by just granting people access to a Green Door-esque forum (not Grid, as that's for staff decisions) and stripping it away if there is evidence of tattling or vote shenanigans, and not needing to mess with the "title" of a clock.

PS: Keep in mind I may be biased because with my flash production I don't think I ever would have earned Clockification :o
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: GodClock on August 22, 2011, 04:48:07 PM
I'm not sure why we need one, I don't think people are banging down our door to be clocks, I say we take who we can get and teach them our secret ways.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Sinister Clock on August 22, 2011, 05:07:18 PM
Quote from: PirateClock;1842895I think it's dumb to be honest. Non of us had to earn our clock status and we made flash regardless. To be honest if i had to "earn" my place here i would probably never have joined. Same reason why i wouldn't join a fraternity, that and it's fucking lame.

Actually yeah, changed my mind. Fuck clockification, it has not remotely useful and just fucks shit up. Get rid of it and we might actually start attracting more people with potential.

The only real thing clockification does besides repel users is provides exclusivity for the green door and that so we don't have people like splatter fucking up our secrets. So just do the thing Binary said and give access to specific clocks and get rid of clockification.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: PineappleClock on August 22, 2011, 05:09:44 PM
well, there seems to be some sentiment for abolishing clockification - one thing however, how would we determine who gets to vote in elections? We cant have everyone that just joins the site participating in elections, otherwise it will be chaos, right?
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: EnglishClock on August 22, 2011, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: PineappleClock;1842932well, there seems to be some sentiment for abolishing clockification - one thing however, how would we determine who gets to vote in elections? We cant have everyone that just joins the site participating in elections, otherwise it will be chaos, right?

Perhaps keep the Probie usergroup just for convenience reasons like this, but lower the automation time to "regular user" from 6 months down to like 2 or 3?
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Slash on August 22, 2011, 05:32:19 PM
There was probably a reason why we got rid of the old system in the first place.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Thor on August 22, 2011, 05:53:05 PM
I don't like the clockification system, but if you bring it back just have people buy clock status with ccs. You'll be getting them for quality movies and posting anyway
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Slurpee on August 22, 2011, 06:47:10 PM
combine probie, clockfriend and official clock and just call us forum members.
if somebody has the shining it should be obvious. don't clog up the naturally emerging social order with bureaucracy.

if we're doing the secret forum for shenanigans I guess keep it to selected access (start w/staff then go by group consensus) if we're worried about nonexistent I'm a edgy teen spies, but remove the pretension and blatant obviousness of a separate user group. then hold the elections in there nbd
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: pop-tart on August 22, 2011, 09:05:00 PM
Agree with Corpsey.

You know how ya start a new job and ya don't get benefits and stuff until ya complete orientation and show you're willing to stick out for a bit.. same shit.

Invest in the community and it will invest in you. Show commitment and you most certainly will be made a compeer.

Sign up and post once every six months and don't contribute dick to the community... no, you don't deserve equal say in shit.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: DWARFINATORclock on August 22, 2011, 09:14:54 PM
only black people should be allowed to become clocks from now on
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: pop-tart on August 22, 2011, 09:18:49 PM
Quote from: DWARFINATORclock;1842970only black people should be allowed to become clocks from now on

Damn straight.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: SockpuppetClock on August 22, 2011, 11:27:23 PM
All I remember out of clockification polls was that everything was stupid and no one was happy

Unless we get a new resurgence of anything I think everyone who's still here or joins here has at the very least below-average intentions, so I doubt there would be that much harm in just letting people vote unless a bunch of life surges back into this place which would be pretty cool and totally not a bad thing

Although I never thought deeply into why we needed to discern who was clock and how was cock other than The Green Door but that's gone so I think the selection-process-era has played out its course
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: PowerGloveClock on August 22, 2011, 11:49:59 PM
i miss green door, it was fun.

 i think we should grant clockification after the week-long newby period and then grant access to the green door (or what ever you decide to call it if you make one) after they've proven themselves worthy of clock status. whether its through flash production, community involvement, etc should be taken into account differently for each person. like if someone signs up and makes a lot of friends on the forum and is a great addition to the community, but isn't making a lot of flash we could try to get them to improve their flash output before granting access. or if the opposite is happening where someone makes loads of flash and seems like a great addition to the community but is apprehensive about posting, we could grant them access to give them a little confidence to get them to speak up more.

just my 2 cents, v:)v
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: I1I1I1I1I1I1I11111I1I1I1IIIIIII1I1I1I1I11I on August 23, 2011, 03:22:20 PM
Probie Death Match. That was some fun stuff.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: AstronautClock on August 23, 2011, 03:27:19 PM
Quote from: Blobert;1843197Probie Death Match. That was some fun stuff.

I forgot about this but I loved that stuff
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: miracle fruit on August 23, 2011, 06:34:34 PM
Quote from: BasedGodClock;1842914I'm not sure why we need one, I don't think people are banging down our door to be clocks, I say we take who we can get and teach them our secret ways.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: buttplug on August 23, 2011, 06:50:14 PM
Listen to the Slurpee.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: RobClock on August 23, 2011, 07:00:06 PM
I'm not sure what I think of clockification. When i joined, i was extremely determined to attain official clock status, but i was shit and therefore didnt. When the Clockfan system came into effect, after a period of excitement for having become an official clock, i realized it had significantly reduced what it meant to be a clock in my eyes. I felt like i still hadn't earned my clockification. I'm still not sure if i ever did.

but i digress; I don't think we need clockification right now, because we haven't had the amount people signing up that would necessitate such a system.


edit - also what slurpee said.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: VCRClock on August 23, 2011, 07:01:19 PM
Quote from: ButtplugClock;1843265Listen to the yeti.

[u2]k03Nk18nOnI[/u2]
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: pop-tart on August 23, 2011, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: RobClock;1843269we haven't had the amount people signing up that would necessitate such a system.

Regardless... this crew only stays elite if we screen our new members. Unless you want this here.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: RobClock on August 23, 2011, 07:20:14 PM
Quote from: Pop-Tart Clock;1843273Regardless... this crew only stays elite if we screen our new members. Unless you want this here.
New member screening is required to keep out such dickheads, yes, but i would imagine that having them be watched by a staff member, and banned for being a twat, would be just as effective.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: buttplug on August 23, 2011, 07:34:09 PM
Quote from: Pop-Tart Clock;1843273Regardless... this crew only stays elite if we screen our new members. Unless you want this here.

Why, we always tell new members if they are doing something wrong and they either fix it or are shunned.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Clocktopus on August 23, 2011, 08:30:28 PM
I thought clockification was a fun system. Although there hasn't been that many new people signing up here recently who have done anything.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: I1I1I1I1I1I1I11111I1I1I1IIIIIII1I1I1I1I11I on August 24, 2011, 08:07:35 AM
I've recruited at least 10 new members, but most of them leave because of the waiting period.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: RobClock on August 24, 2011, 08:51:42 AM
Quote from: Blobert;1843400I've recruited at least 10 new members, but most of them leave because of the waiting period.

If they're not willing to wait a week to join the community, then they're not worth having in the community.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Sinister Clock on August 24, 2011, 10:31:05 AM
Yeah I also think the week waiting period is doing a lot more harm than good.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: PineappleClock on August 24, 2011, 12:07:27 PM
OK so let me try to boil this discussion down and my apologies if I misconstrue anything any of you may of written.

* Some of us see clockification as being beneficial, but not in our current state of affairs (not enough new noteworthy members). This may change in the future, and when that time comes we can vote to institute something.
* Most of us want the clockification system abolished
* A lot of people agree with slurpee, in that probie, CF and Clock should be combined into a regular 'member' class
* Corpse and others suggest there should be a training period for recruits - I'd need to see either policy or technical details on how that would work - Would there be an "clockcrew merit badge" system whereby you perform tasks and earn badges?

New Joins:
* additionally, the waiting period for new joins should be removed as it dissuades new participation
* part of this waiting period is due to a lot of new joins being bots
* most of the bots originate from a few select countries, countries that almost nobody else on the forums originate from
* for these countries, in order to sign up, i will create new revolutionary system, called the CRAPTCHA (Crappy, Retailiatory, Arbitrary Paragraph-long Tedious CAPTCHA for Harassing Arab bots) which is just a 3-5 paragraph long giant captcha that takes about 20 minutes to fill out (case sensitive of course)

* now since we need a upper echelon of master-artists, we will re-institute the green room, and that will be like a clock crew fight club - you wont be able to talk about it on the forums, and it's invite only and you have to be sponsored by other members. There we can talk about without spies sapping our sentries (if i get invited)

So, for the new charter that's in the oven, we will propose the following line items:
* Clockification is hereby abolished (anyone who wants to be a clock, we welcome you - proving you are commited to the group, however, is left for the community to decide)
* Waiting period for new users is abolished

Your thoughts on this attempted summary?
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: miracle fruit on August 24, 2011, 12:18:07 PM
Quote from: Blobert;1843400I've recruited at least 10 new members, but most of them leave because of the waiting period.

sounds like a bunch of impatient babies
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: I1I1I1I1I1I1I11111I1I1I1IIIIIII1I1I1I1I11I on August 24, 2011, 12:37:33 PM
The badge thing sounds pretty cool. Would it be like a boy scouts thing?
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Clocktopus on August 24, 2011, 12:54:45 PM
I've always hated the waiting period. Good to see something being done about it.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: AnkhClock on August 24, 2011, 01:40:24 PM
Sounds good to me. My only question is how a "Training Period" like Corpse suggests will play out. Anything that requires more than a modicum of effort from multiple members probably will sputter and die after a month or two. If it's something automatic, or just hazing from older members, then that would work.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: YoYoClock on August 24, 2011, 04:39:57 PM
This "Training Period" happens naturally just by the new clock being around for a while. I see no need to formalise it and see clockification as a waste of time.

As far as elitism goes, if people are set on some kind of green door situation, I feel it should include literally every generally established clock right now. Any news guys would be allowed in once they are established as a guy who hangs around here and is cool. That sorta sounds like clockification really except it's all really just to regulate who can vote in elections.

We'd be better to focus any energy and motivation we have on creating good resources for the budding clock to use at his/her leisure to better themselves
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Sinister Clock on August 24, 2011, 07:58:33 PM
As long as we can stop the blacks from voting, I'm cool with whatever.


nigga what?
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: cast on August 26, 2011, 11:54:12 AM
Quote from: PineappleClock;1842932well, there seems to be some sentiment for abolishing clockification - one thing however, how would we determine who gets to vote in elections? We cant have everyone that just joins the site participating in elections, otherwise it will be chaos, right?

I'm all good with abolishing Clockification.
 
The Clockcrew is for everyone - even people who don't visit this site or take on a Clock persona. Renaenae is a perfect example of the type of person I'm talking about. Shes hardly associated with the Clockcrew aside from many of her Flash submissions over on Newgrounds, each of which is truly a wonderful gift and work of art I will add.. I'd say as long as you have the spirit to spread this silly marvel known as the Clockcrew about the world, and this interest has influenced any individual to contribute to the story of the Clockcrew, they're a Clock - and they might not even realize it.

What if things are the other way around? What if the Clockcrew was the spark of new found creativity or passion? We know it literally changed Jane's life. As unlikely as the Clockcrew is it was just meant to be so - it wouldn't be fair to continue saying who can or cannot be a member when it's very genesis was mere chance. THATS JUST LIKE LIFE. WE HAVE FIGURED OUT HE MEANING OF LIFE IT'S THE FUCKING CLOCKCREW AND STRAWBERRYCLOCK.

As far as elections go, personally I'd say stop taking all of this so seriously and just appoint some level headed and fair staff, but just have them here to clean up obvious trouble makers messes and handle member inquires. But in direct response to who can vote in elections perhaps everyone who joined before 2005? I guess those individuals can be considered seniority. If you think about it, seniority makes the most sense. They helped pave the way for future generations much like Tom paved the way for us to get to this point along with the original three and blah blah we all know the story. BYE
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: AC Slater on August 26, 2011, 12:10:28 PM
I want to bring it back and have it run like it was back in the day. Only official clocks (or maybe even only staff) can vote in new clocks.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: cast on August 26, 2011, 12:54:18 PM
Yep. Running a community like this isn't an easy thing to do. Clockradio is probably one of my favorite people I've ever met online. Probably best to just merge everyone as members - and still have a grace period for newcomers.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Sinister Clock on August 26, 2011, 08:05:13 PM
The clockification thing would probably be fine as a automatic thing after six months or so, with a fast track option for people who contribute and get voted, lets say they can make a new thread with a poll every few weeks or something. But we need to either get rid of clockification or the week waiting thing, as we have way too many barriers up preventing potential awesome dudes or dudettes joining up because seriously fuck waiting a week to post on a forum. You just forget about it, even if you have a keen interest in animation.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: HeinekenClock on August 31, 2011, 04:56:39 AM
Maybe the Green Door could be realised by a list of official clocks that simply have green door privileges. They and those who aren't allowed in would both have Official Clock status, but maybe those with access would have a Green Door award for something trivial to distinguish them from those without access.

This way there'd be no elitism towards those without access because the user titles are the same, we could have a Green Door without a clockification process and at the same time avoid some nosy Newgroundite signing up and gaining access automatically after a while.

addendum

CorpseGrinder's idea of having a list of things everybody should know available is a great idea but it poses some problems:

a) If the answers are to be filled in manually, someone would have to check and grade their application.
b) If the answers are multiple choice the test could be cheated in a couple of tries, assuming the website tells the new members which answers they got wrong.
c) If the website doesn't tell the new members which answers they got wrong, it'll be next to impossible to pass the test.

Here's my idea for a clockification system (which does not involve new ideas for the signing up process :()

When a new member signs up they are given an account with access to all forums save for the administrative ones and hypothetical green door.
When they go to their profile page there is a checklist of things they have to do, like such:

x) Vote (rate fairly!!1) on StrawberryClock's "B" at least fifteen times.
x) Post in at least 10 different forums.
x) Have at least two flash movies on your Newgrounds account.
x) Prove your economic smarts by saving at least 100cc's
x) You must buy a peggey and you must pet it.

This means the portalgrapher would have to work, and the clock credit related options could be built in once the system is ready. They should be a mix of things that 1. take time but not more than several months 2. require at least a little effort and most importantly a lot of 3. are fun to do (like saving up credits, buying a peggey from the store, buy a username with at least five capital B's in them).

I'm sorry, this seems like it would be an absolute shitload of work to implement. But when the forums had a lot of different things to do, like the arcade and working towards clockication, this place was more active. I don't know if one is the result of the other or the other way around though.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: SchoolClock on August 31, 2011, 06:13:45 AM
If I could +1 the below, I would.

Quote from: HeinekenClock;1846701Here's my idea for a clockification system (which does not involve new ideas for the signing up process :()

When a new member signs up they are given an account with access to all forums save for the administrative ones and hypothetical green door.
When they go to their profile page there is a checklist of things they have to do, like such:

x) Vote (rate fairly!!1) on StrawberryClock's "B" at least fifteen times.
x) Post in at least 10 different forums.
x) Have at least two flash movies on your Newgrounds account.
x) Prove your economic smarts by saving at least 100cc's
x) You must buy a peggey and you must pet it.

This means the portalgrapher would have to work, and the clock credit related options could be built in once the system is ready. They should be a mix of things that 1. take time but not more than several months 2. require at least a little effort and most importantly a lot of 3. are fun to do (like saving up credits, buying a peggey from the store, buy a username with at least five capital B's in them).

I'm sorry, this seems like it would be an absolute shitload of work to implement. But when the forums had a lot of different things to do, like the arcade and working towards clockication, this place was more active. I don't know if one is the result of the other or the other way around though.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: VCRClock on August 31, 2011, 08:22:10 AM
Quote from: HeinekenClock;1846701x) Post in at least 10 different forums.

I am not a person with a lot of opinions about Clockification, but I just want to point out that this is a really bad idea for a requirement because it encourages shitposting.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Sinister Clock on August 31, 2011, 08:25:35 AM
And also the different forums are for different people with different tastes.

Personally I think you should be clockified as soon as you paypal me $20
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: HeinekenClock on August 31, 2011, 08:29:12 AM
Quote from: VCRClock;1846749I am not a person with a lot of opinions about Clockification, but I just want to point out that this is a really bad idea for a requirement because it encourages shitposting.

Actually that's why I said 10 and not all of them. Basically it's meant to encourage to post at least a couple times outside of general. Edit - Although 10 indeed seems a bit high.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Topcatyo on August 31, 2011, 10:20:30 PM
A lot of forums use a karma system of sorts. You can rate posts as good or bad and that increases/decreases the user's karma.  We could implement that and have there be, I dunno, reasons to have a good score on that if we were to end up implementing that.

Instead of the "Post in 10 subforums" have it be "Have a karma rating of 'Moderately average but still sorta alright boy'."
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Sinister Clock on August 31, 2011, 10:46:24 PM
Karma systems on every forum are objectively awful.

No.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: PineappleClock on September 01, 2011, 03:02:09 AM
The consensus is that clockifcation be abolished, this is added in the new charter - creating anything else to take its place should be discussed seperately (like the merit system or some sort of karma system), or suggested in the suggestions forum.

i'll leave this thread open if anyone else wants to comment
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK on September 01, 2011, 03:04:01 AM
Quote from: Sinister Clock;1847103Karma systems on every forum are objectively awful.

No.
If a karma system is put into place I promise as supermod to use the mod cp to abuse it.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Asshatclock on September 01, 2011, 07:09:18 AM
Make a seperate usergroup called Dutchclocks, in order to become one you need to come to holland and suck my dick.
While in the dutchclock group you gain all sorts of priviledges such as beeing loved by corpsegrinder and post in the Frikandel speciaal forum that nobody else can see.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: SpongeClock SquarePants on September 01, 2011, 07:17:02 AM
Quote from: Asshatclock;1847275Make a seperate usergroup called Dutchclocks, in order to become one you need to come to holland and suck my dick.
While in the dutchclock group you gain all sorts of priviledges such as beeing loved by corpsegrinder and post in the Frikandel speciaal forum that nobody else can see.


Frikandel speciaal forum !!!!!111
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: SpongeClock SquarePants on September 01, 2011, 07:18:22 AM
Bring back CC's

BUY CLOCKIFICATION
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Asshatclock on September 01, 2011, 12:59:28 PM
Quote from: SpongeClock SquarePants;1847279Bring back CC's

BUY CLOCKIFICATION

I like this idea, buy your clockhood.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: AnkhClock on September 01, 2011, 04:10:49 PM
You can only become an Official Clock if you can pass an impossibly difficult reading comprehension test. You are exempt from this test, however, if your grandfather was a Clock.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: Kodiakclock on September 03, 2011, 01:06:15 PM
I say we vote on everything, and I mean everything. But I was one of the people who a few years ago helped get the ball rolling in removing the clockification system. It didn't destroy the crew and there isnt really a shit load of people joining the forum. the only thing that was good about it was the green door, which could be useful on some occasions because I know I was going for TOTW on clocktopia and some NG faggot must have told tom because It got deleted soon after.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: AlbinoClock on September 03, 2011, 09:44:30 PM
Clockification was good when we needed a firewall, but we need whatever the opposite of a firewall is at the moment if anything.
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK on September 03, 2011, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: AlbinoClock;1848914Clockification was good when we needed a firewall, but we need whatever the opposite of a firewall is at the moment if anything.

I agree
Title: Your thoughts on Clockification
Post by: zl on September 03, 2011, 09:51:48 PM
initiate the waterwall