Humanity failed the moment we made eSports acceptable.

[Schmellements Clawk]

I have ELEAGUE from TBS on in the background, and my only question is, why?!  Why are we watching people playing sports in a video game instead of watching the real thing?

As long as they don't fuck with golf, I'm fine.  However, I'm not very optimistic.

[Thor]

In what way is watching people doing sports better than watching people doing any other arbitrary activity?

Obviously doing sports is better than playing video games in many ways, but I don't see how that applies to sitting down and watching somebody else doing an activity.

[Clocktopus]

I'd rather watch people play something I enjoy than watching people play sports.

[k9]

I don't like eSports personally. People seem to get way saltier at epsorts than real sports

[Schmellements Clawk]

In what way is watching people doing sports better than watching people doing any other arbitrary activity?

Obviously doing sports is better than playing video games in many ways, but I don't see how that applies to sitting down and watching somebody else doing an activity.

Because it's absurd.  There's a disparity in skill between playing in a chair and being out on the court.  Professional sport players put all their physical and mental fortitude working as a unit for their team.  Professional eSport players twiddle their thumbs and get mad when they couldn't press the buttons fast enough.

I'd rather watch people play something I enjoy than watching people play sports.

You don't think they really enjoy what they're doing, do you?  They're not there for the eSport, they're there to be crowned the next neckbeard king and you know it.

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

wii sports tennis is the only true sport

[Thor]

Because it's absurd.  There's a disparity in skill between playing in a chair and being out on the court.  Professional sport players put all their physical and mental fortitude working as a unit for their team.  Professional eSport players twiddle their thumbs and get mad when they couldn't press the buttons fast enough.

You can make anything sound stupid by just describing it in extremely simplified terms and just ignoring everything that makes it complex. Basketball is just dudes throwing childrens toy balls at metal hoops. Making space ships is just putting some flammable stuff in a tube.  Being omnipotent is just making stuff by thinking, big deal.

It sounds like the problem here isn't that esports is bad, it's that you don't like when people enjoy things you don't enjoy

[Schmellements Clawk]

You can make anything sound stupid by just describing it in extremely simplified terms and just ignoring everything that makes it complex. Basketball is just dudes throwing childrens toy balls at metal hoops. Making space ships is just putting some flammable stuff in a tube.  Being omnipotent is just making stuff by thinking, big deal.

It sounds like the problem here isn't that esports is bad, it's that you don't like when people enjoy things you don't enjoy

You pulled your strawman argument card, please explain how eSports is complex.

[Thor]

You pulled your strawman argument card, please explain how eSports is complex.

Something doesn't need to be complex at all to be a valid form of competition. And something doesn't need to be complex OR a valid form of competition to be enjoyable for somebody to watch.

To go to extreme terms, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with somebody enjoying watching a still picture of a jar of mayo for 10 hours. If they enjoyed that for some reason.

Anyway, esports being complex wasn't the point, I was just saying that it's bullshit to try to defame something by just describing it in simplistic terms.

Now, all that said... some esports is pretty complex in terms of game theory and the amount of data that needs to be memorized and applied. Really depends on the game though. Input complexity or how fast you can press buttons isn't a relevant factor in any popular competitive game.

[Thor]

I think eSports is a very misleading term. Competitive videogames have much more similarities to board games like chess or go in terms of the competitive spirit and kind of competition. Thinking of it in terms of being a sort of sport is nonsensical, like trying to call chess a sport.

[Schmellements Clawk]

I think eSports is a very misleading term. Competitive videogames have much more similarities to board games like chess or go in terms of the competitive spirit and kind of competition. Thinking of it in terms of being a sort of sport is nonsensical, like trying to call chess a sport.

I agree with you, which is why it shouldn't be a spectacle on TV, nor should people try to compare it to actual sports.  I have no problem with people that enjoy streaming it, it's only when they think eChamps are comparable to actual sport professionals and worship them as such.

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

I dunno. checkers should probably be a tv spectacle.

[VCRClock]

I think eSports is a very misleading term. Competitive videogames have much more similarities to board games like chess or go in terms of the competitive spirit and kind of competition. Thinking of it in terms of being a sort of sport is nonsensical, like trying to call chess a sport.

Esports is more like chessboxing. To be competitive, as in chess, you have to know a bunch of stupid shit about how the game works that nobody cares about outside of your community. But unlike chess, you still have to be able to do quick reaction time fine motor skills bullshit. I disagree that "how fast you can press buttons" isn't a factor, even if we're strictly talking multiplayer gaming and not people who do speed runs. The number of times you can depress a key during a time window usually doesn't matter, thankfully, but it does matter how quickly you're able to see something coming and react.

Nobody asked me, but I think the biggest difference for me is the relationship athletes and eAthletes have to their own bodies. eSports feels more democratic, because being five feet tall won't put you at a disadvantage in Counterstrike. Actual sports (hereafter, "aSports") performance depends on the integrity of the whole body, so aSports players stick to diet and exercise programs that promote their own general health, and I imagine they get enough sleep. The physical component of eSports really only requires hand and eye function, and the only risk of physical injury is stuff like carpal tunnel -- there's less of you on the line to begin with, and there's absolutely less off-court discipline involved, because you can still go home and be a useless piece of shit all day and play all these games. I don't like how closely culture's reverence for The Athlete is tied to a specific brand of pro sports, but part of that homoerotic mystique is taking care of yourself, and gamers don't really have to do that, so it's ok to make fun of them for having fun

all athlete worship is stupid and I hate it. don't act like michael jordan's god because he's a terrific athlete; he's god because he's a terrific athlete in a televised sport that makes a great deal of money. if there's a michael jordan of men's volleyball I guarantee you've never heard of him

[Schmellements Clawk]

Nobody asked me, but I think the biggest difference for me is the relationship athletes and eAthletes have to their own bodies. eSports feels more democratic, because being five feet tall won't put you at a disadvantage in Counterstrike.

Height doesn't put you at a disadvantage when it comes to physical sports usually either, with a few exceptions.  There's been plenty of professional short athletes that I can respect, because they train and have to prepare mentally twice as hard.

[RobClock]

i enjoy watching competitive street fighter but that's about it as far as esports go on my end. I don't have a ton of respect for it as a career choice but I wouldnt consider myself disparaging of those who've managed to make it.

[GreyClock]

I agree with Thor. It's funny that he pretty much called Elements a reductionist, because this swirling chaos we call reality could do with a healthy dose of reductionism and relativism. And that falls firmly within the camp of Thor's side of the argument. In the broadest possible terms, we're all just filling our meaningless existence with stuff. It doesn't matter if you spend your time reading the literary canon intently or idly watching the shadows move across your living room wall. One isn't inherently "better" than the other, or more meaningful. At the end of the day it's all the same: distractions. I don't mean that as in distractions from some hidden yet allegedly noble pursuit. Those are distractions too, whatever they may be. It's inescapable and interchangeable. Do whatever you enjoy in the here and now. People say that's the type of hedonistic mindset that leads to killin' and rapin', but I just don't enjoy killin' and rapin'. Also I often don't do the things that are most enjoyable to me because I'm a lazy fuck, so I'll settle for watching Seinfeld for the twelfth time. (Which, don't get me wrong, is a great show.) As the seconds of your life tick tick tick away. Not in any scary or desperate sense, but in a fatalistic sense. So what I'm saying is: Elements you're absolutely right. In your reality eSports are a significant marker for The Decline of Western Civilization. Getting all up in arms about it somehow achieves anything. Same with me typing out all this bullshit. So let's connect physically Ouroboros style and cum ourselves inside out in recognition of... whatever.

[NintendrCkolc]

What if there was a "Loudest fart" measured in decibels competition on TBS?

[Schmellements Clawk]

I know why you call yourself GreyClock now — you're always within the grey area of thinking.  Indeed, it's a quality none too many are able to possess because bias tends to get in our way.  At some point you're going to have to choose though, picking between left or right Twix is srs busness.

You're right, life is inherently meaningless.  It falls on us to create our own meaning.  I place my meaning within the relationships I have with other people.  There's something incredible about being able to rely on others, just as they know they can rely on you.  I think a healthy and mutual friendship is the greatest experience you can have in this life.

I also agree with doing what you want that makes you happy, providing you're not being destructive to yourself or others.  Only a coward has total disregard for others, they will never truly be happy.

[PhantomCatClock]

maybe your life is inherently meaningless but i am cool i wear sunglasses

[Schmellements Clawk]

maybe your life is inherently meaningless but i am cool i wear sunglasses

I can't argue with that.