News:

If you need instructions on how to get through the hotels, check out the enclosed instruction book.

Main Menu

Gay marriage.

Farted by AbsintheClock, September 01, 2008, 07:56:27 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Topcatyo

I have no problem with gay marriage, they can marry if they want.  Hell, most gay people willing to marry seem to be more in love than straight people who marry.  They might tip the scales of the divorce rate.

WreckingBallClock

We are trying to save the homosexuals from certain agony. We need to have heteros marry, because pre-marital birth is  against most morals. Without babies being made, all life ceases.

But if they want to torture themselves, I don't think shitty organized religion should poke its ass into government.

Quote from: Bubbie;1394056I have no problem with gay marriage, they can marry if they want. Hell, most gay people willing to marry seem to be more in love than straight people who marry. They might tip the scales of the divorce rate.

I think divorce is stupid. If you married wrong, well you should have paid attention and didn't try that LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT crap. If that quote is true, then divorce will slow, and that makes me embrace the idea of gay marriage.

WreckingBallClock

Quote from: Bubbie;1394056I have no problem with gay marriage, they can marry if they want.  Hell, most gay people willing to marry seem to be more in love than straight people who marry.  They might tip the scales of the divorce rate.

I think divorce is stupid. If you married wrong, well you should have paid attention and didn't try that LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT crap. If that quote is true, then divorce will slow, and that makes me embrace the idea of gay marriage.

CubeMelonClock

Quote from: GearBox;1394053Wow, I actually agree with Triangle.

*Edit* What's wrong with me?

Yeah, but flux kinda point out why that doesn't really work out.

To me you have to apply a sort of light touch -- you can't force your opinions down someone's throat, but if you see a man about to jump off a bridge, then surely you should try to prevent them from doing so in a constructive way.

The concept of hell makes it a bit fuzzy though, because "hell" is really left up to interpretation and isn't something that you can visibly confront depending on how rigidly you interpret it.


FluxCapacitorClock

Quote from: Franklin G. Hamilton;1394126Uhh, its not even an issue. You don't get the right to infringe on my rights. That's plain and simple.

I have the right to express my beliefs and opinions to anyone in any manner that doesn't cause psychical harm. You have a right to deny my beliefs, but I have a right to express them to you all I want, whether I'm preaching or just giving casual mention. It's impossible for everyone to "just do their own shit", because if I were religious, my shit would be preaching to you and your shit would be denying my preachings. This is why we can't all just do our own shit without conflict.


I'm not religious btw. I'm playing devil's advocate again.

AbsintheClock

Quote from: The Hero of Winds;1393876Eh, it was just there.
It's a bit of a pain because if you want to type more than one word everything has to be lower-cased with no punctuation.

Also I don't see how you expect me to use facts, absinthe. This isn't a fact-based issue, it's a moral one.

I dunno my morals are based on facts. For an example if you kill somebody they won't come back to life. Thus killing is bad. Be nice to people, because if you enjoy being treated nicely others may too. Would you say that morals are only ingrained by people of some sort of religious faith? Do you have to be a catholic to be a moral human being?

That is not only absurd but it's offensive. Morality does not come from a church, morality comes from living. You gain morals over time that you wouldn't have a-priori of birth. I do not believe it's an issue of moral in your case but rather an issue of dogma. By all means not a personal attack. A religious belief issue, and a moral issue are two different things.

 Would you as a catholic say that it is immoral to eat a pork chop? Certainly not unless it was lent or something like that. But ask a jew if it's immoral and he will say yes. It's more a religious ad-libbing of sorts to say that something is immoral because a church of any belief says it is.

So in conclusion you're talking about dogma, not morals. Morals are generally a lot more all-inclusive. A lot of religions share them as well. Some of these things have been established by the code of Hammurabi. Nowhere in any non-denominational laws up until the dark ages, and puritan ages does it say "Don't be a bugger."

As for Tri I agree with him. People should mind their own business.

I also agree with Flux. No church should be forced to condone a marriage by anyone if they do not wish to sanction it. They have every right to dogmatist objection.

GearBoxClock


Marlin Clock

Quote from: AbsintheClock;1394283I dunno my morals are based on facts. For an example if you kill somebody they won't come back to life. Thus killing is bad. Be nice to people, because if you enjoy being treated nicely others may too. Would you say that morals are only ingrained by people of some sort of religious faith? Do you have to be a catholic to be a moral human being?

That is not only absurd but it's offensive. Morality does not come from a church, morality comes from living. You gain morals over time that you wouldn't have a-priori of birth. I do not believe it's an issue of moral in your case but rather an issue of dogma. By all means not a personal attack. A religious belief issue, and a moral issue are two different things.

 Would you as a catholic say that it is immoral to eat a pork chop? Certainly not unless it was lent or something like that. But ask a jew if it's immoral and he will say yes. It's more a religious ad-libbing of sorts to say that something is immoral because a church of any belief says it is.

So in conclusion you're talking about dogma, not morals. Morals are generally a lot more all-inclusive. A lot of religions share them as well. Some of these things have been established by the code of Hammurabi. Nowhere in any non-denominational laws up until the dark ages, and puritan ages does it say "Don't be a bugger."

As for Tri I agree with him. People should mind their own business.

I also agree with Flux. No church should be forced to condone a marriage by anyone if they do not wish to sanction it. They have every right to dogmatist objection.
:confused: You can't tell me what my morals are or are not, dogma is in place to guide good morals. You can be offended but I believe homosexuality is morally wrong.

AbsintheClock

Quote from: The Hero of Winds;1394290:confused: You can't tell me what my morals are or are not, dogma is in place to guide good morals. You can be offended but I believe homosexuality is morally wrong.

Actually I can tell you that your morals are not morals but religious beliefs. I am not offended, because I've heard it many times before. I'm just stating you are wrong. I've come up with my counter-argument to your point before you've even made an argument so please elaborate. And why is your dogma a better guide than those of churches that support gay people?

Would you say that it's acceptable to denounce a church just because they don't fit in with your set of standards? It's that kind of attitude that leads to things like the Spanish inquisition. As human beings we don't have to agree with each other, but rather respect each other, and see each other for who we really are.

If a dogma is set in place to guide good morals, then why is it that according to law, general social standards, and in the view of the community I am a moral person. Yet at the same time I do not believe in any dogma.

You're not going to slip away just because you think you can offend me. Explain your points, and share your ideas with us. No need for glitter text either.

zl

Quote from: The Hero of Winds;1394290:confused: You can't tell me what my morals are or are not, dogma is in place to guide good morals. You can be offended but I believe homosexuality is morally wrong.

Yeah I've had no problem with how you have been presenting his case in this thread.

I disagree about homosexuality being immoral.  But your position seems to be, "if the majority wills gay marriage, that's how it should be."  So that's placing the ideals of democracy over your own ideal about relationships.  That takes humility!

AbsintheClock

Quote from: Zombie Lincoln;1394295Yeah I've had no problem with how you have been presenting his case in this thread.

I disagree about homosexuality being immoral.  But your position seems to be, "if the majority wills gay marriage, that's how it should be."  So that's placing the ideals of democracy over your own ideal about relationships.  That takes humility!

But should somebody accept an idea in the first place if they believe it to be morally wrong? What if the majority opinion was that we should hang muslims? I believe that the moral objection lies not in an opinion of morality, but rather dogmatism. Although it does take a lot of humility, and I respect that.

WreckingBallClock

The Catholic Church misinterpreted the Bible. And the Bible wasn't written by Jesus, nor his apostles. Gay marriage isn't really even a part of religion. When God said "Bear children..." he said we'd need to do that in order to continue the human race, and not because he was homophobic.

Topcatyo

Allow me to ask this, Marlin:  What makes it morally wrong?

AbsintheClock

Quote from: Drake Bell;1394305The Catholic Church misinterpreted the Bible. And the Bible wasn't written by Jesus, nor his apostles. Gay marriage isn't really even a part of religion. When God said "Bear children..." he said we'd need to do that in order to continue the human race, and not because he was homophobic.

Do you have the whole scripture? It's cool if you don't I just want to see how you came to that conclusion.

RomanClock

Quote from: AbsintheClock;1394301What if the majority opinion was that we should hang muslims?

Ask that to the majority that wants to kill Jews?
Also, the punishment should equal the crime, and doing something morally wrong against someone doing something morally wrong doesn't fix the problem but creates a new one.
lemayo lol :soups:

AbsintheClock

Quote from: RomanClock;1394316Ask that to the majority that wants to kill jews?

I don't think anyone here wants to kill jews. Besides we threw RomanCollar out of here a long time ago. But lets try to keep relevant here. If sociologically he doesn't object to gay marriage, although in a religious circumstance he objects... There's the point here.

zl

Quote from: Bubbie;1394306Allow me to ask this, Marlin:  What makes it morally wrong?

maybe that ought to be its own topic

WreckingBallClock

Quote from: AbsintheClock;1394308Do you have the whole scripture? It's cool if you don't I just want to see how you came to that conclusion.

Err... well, that's what it said. God has never said anything about "GAY=BAD GUIS!" but I believe that the belief that gay marriage was bad came from Adam and Eve, when God told them to give birth. It came from the "blah blah blah ...and you must bear children..." which, since homosexual do not have the complete sexual reproductions down, makes gay wrong. It was always about how gay people couldn't give birth (if I'm not mistaken), and it evolved into something more...

I think that's what you were talking about?

Marlin Clock

Quote from: AbsintheClock;1394294Actually I can tell you that your morals are not morals but religious beliefs. I am not offended, because I've heard it many times before. I'm just stating you are wrong. I've come up with my counter-argument to your point before you've even made an argument so please elaborate. And why is your dogma a better guide than those of churches that support gay people?
It all comes down to who you listen to. We Catholics believe that Saint Augustine was guided by God, and his sexual dogma was divinely inspired. We believe that things like fornication, adultery, and homosexuality are wrong because the Lord has told us it is wrong.
QuoteWould you say that it's acceptable to denounce a church just because they don't fit in with your set of standards? It's that kind of attitude that leads to things like the Spanish inquisition. As human beings we don't have to agree with each other, but rather respect each other, and see each other for who we really are.
I believe it's fit to try and convince a church that its beliefs are wrong, because they do not follow what we believe the Lord has commanded us.
QuoteIf a dogma is set in place to guide good morals, then why is it that according to law, general social standards, and in the view of the community I am a moral person. Yet at the same time I do not believe in any dogma.
There are some fundamental morals that all people know. Dogma is simply rules we believe are what the Lord wishes us to do.

AvocadoClock

Quote from: RomanClock;1393502Marriage isn't a right and I'll leave it at that.

I'd say you're wrong.

For most people, marriage would be considered "in the pursuit of happiness."

The United States Supreme Court, in recognizing that marriage is a fundamental right, stated that "the freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness." (Loving v. Virginia [1967])