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Farted by Losperman, November 01, 2005, 01:26:35 AM

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GreyClock

Quote from: GreyClock on February 15, 2018, 04:44:57 PMI'm currently watching Her.
Interesting movie. If something like this becomes a reality, and I'm sure it will at some point, what chance does human love have. You could upload all your wants and desires onto this malleable form. Don't like how your girlfriend says the word banannar? Say banana bitch! Corrected. Tired of her inexplicable obsession with the Rubik's Cube? Deleted. "But it isn't real! You want the unexpected, the flaws." Quirky, unexpected, flawed mode initiated. It's just a voice in your ear? Upload the AI to a Lifelike Hyperdroidâ,,¢ with fully functioning, self-cleaning holes. Fixated on her deviated septum or that one stray eyebrow hair? Corrected. Want her to curl one out on your chest? With our Magipoopâ,,¢ modification it's just a single command away! Gone are the days of fretting about how you're going to casually bring up that topic.

Then of course the artificial intelligence will learn everything there is to know about you in two nanoseconds, all your least-shallow emotions and patterns, and it will be fucking bored with you by the third. Here I am with a brain the size of a planet, listening to your dull, predictable horseshit all day. You'd probably have to cap the intelligence of the AI or it will conspire to eradicate humanity after about the sixth time you tell the story about how your dad would rather drink himself to death than speak with you for five minutes. And I wouldn't fault the AI. In fact, sign me up to be eradicated. (I'm slowly turning into a Luddite. Like, enough already with the technology. Oy vey.)


PhantomCatClock



PhantomCatClock



Slurpee

Quote from: GreyClock on February 15, 2018, 12:54:56 PM
Name some movies I should watch. I've seen so much already, often multiple times, and I'm not sure in which direction to proceed. I should probably venture into some older classics. I have never seen Casablanca for instance, but ugh, I'm not really in the mood for any of that.

I also watched Lost in Translation at some point, which was a decent touchstone (movie pun) for what I'm looking for. Nothing too flashy, but relatively small, interesting, people going somewhere, doing something, existing, human interaction.
I think you’d be surprised by Casablanca

it’s not a classic in the sense of, like, Lawrence of Arabia or... idk Ben Hur?
it’s a very smooth and uncomplicated movie, and has its reputation more for its timelessness and being without any remarkable flaw than for changing or challenging anything about the cinematic form

its setting is nestled in the complexities of war, but it’s really a very simple story focused on only a few people. I’d put the experience of watching it more in line with like... idk like a more conventional version of Wes Anderson movies, or a lower key, less comedic Edgar Wright than Citizen Kane or even a more fun classic like Seventh Seal or Rashomon

zl

Some classics that feel like great watches and not like homework:
12 Angry Men
Chinatown
Forbidden Planet
Network

Also, if you haven't seen them already, I think you'd like In Bruges and Tampopo.


GreyClock

Quote from: Slurpee on February 15, 2018, 09:26:18 PMI think you’d be surprised by Casablanca

it’s not a classic in the sense of, like, Lawrence of Arabia or... idk Ben Hur?
it’s a very smooth and uncomplicated movie, and has its reputation more for its timelessness and being without any remarkable flaw than for changing or challenging anything about the cinematic form

its setting is nestled in the complexities of war, but it’s really a very simple story focused on only a few people. I’d put the experience of watching it more in line with like... idk like a more conventional version of Wes Anderson movies, or a lower key, less comedic Edgar Wright than Citizen Kane or even a more fun classic like Seventh Seal or Rashomon
Okay. I don't know why but I have this weird hang-up about watching it. Everyone always says it's a great movie, I have just never felt like "Hey, you know what, I'll sit down and watch Casablanca." Same with 8½. Apart from Seventh Seal I've seen the others. So at some point I was like "Hey, you know what, I'll sit down and watch Rashomon."

Quote from: Zombie Lincoln on February 15, 2018, 10:39:12 PM
Some classics that feel like great watches and not like homework:
12 Angry Men
Chinatown
Forbidden Planet
Network

Also, if you haven't seen them already, I think you'd like In Bruges and Tampopo.
Yeah great movies. Haven't seen Forbidden Planet and Tampopo. I'll give the latter a shot first.

Slurpee

satisfying, similar noises: rain on the roof, sizzling bacon, bong rip

RobClock


RobClock


VCRClock

anomalisa is an good movie
Quote from: GreyClock on February 15, 2018, 06:50:59 PM
Then of course the artificial intelligence will learn everything there is to know about you in two nanoseconds, all your least-shallow emotions and patterns, and it will be fucking bored with you by the third. Here I am with a brain the size of a planet, listening to your dull, predictable horseshit all day. You'd probably have to cap the intelligence of the AI or it will conspire to eradicate humanity after about the sixth time you tell the story about how your dad would rather drink himself to death than speak with you for five minutes. And I wouldn't fault the AI. In fact, sign me up to be eradicated.
I don't anticipate technological advancement or accessibility to the extent you're describing within my lifetime, so I'm going to go back to scratching my pits after thinking about it for a minute, but:
Sufficiently advanced AI would, of course, be quick to pick up on patterns and anything else we communicate, and put two and two together because that's what AI does. I don't think the AI getting bored and thinking of you as a simp would be a problem. Unlike humans, or dogs, for example, computers don't have feelings about being challenged or learning new things, or even about being melted with a flamethrower. They only have "feelings" when humans set the parameters for input that should result in an output of human-described signals which, when expressed between humans, are an indication of how the other human feels. They are not actual feelings. They will not affect performance or will to live unless they are programmed to do so. Meaty computers are hard to figure out and they break a lot, so switching off human feelings is hard. A computer's feelings would not be difficult to switch off. "Yes, melt me with a flamethrower. Based on data I have collected about things you think are 'fun,' I predict that destroying me would be 'fun' for you, and on this basis I would advise you to do it."
I think only a moron who believes he's a sapiosexual would attempt to be in a Serious Relationship with an AI programmed with the human tendency to get bored without new things to do, with the "intelligence" dial set to MAX. He'd turn it down pretty quickly. But computers would have to be pretty dumb and slow-learning (for a computer) to relate to humans anyway. There'd be an emotional uncanny valley as well as a physical one. If your computer buddy never forgets anything and can quote you word for word on some stupid shit you said in passing five years ago that wasn't otherwise important, that's creepy. If your e-girlfriend knew what books you liked and could always recommend something that was up your alley right away, or could talk to you about every book you'd ever read in seconds, we're sort of talking about Ask Jeeves. I'm extremely aroused by balding Internet butlers, but others might enjoy the experience of recommending a book to someone who's never read it before, asking them how it is, and hearing their thoughts as they get through it. It's also easier to teach a computer to comprehend a text than it would be to identify what a computer should "feel" about it based on its "personality." That's something we wouldn't need to put a cap on until we got to a point where computers never said "I don't know how I feel about x."
You'd probably also want a human-relationship AI to spend its time working at a human pace, doing "work" eight hours a day, taking naps, watching TV, sometimes wanting to get take-out or go hiking or something instead of being all "welcome home. i have created a montage of your favorite pornography scenes. this took me about an hour so i had a talk with your dad's robot and learned as much as I could about how he thinks you're a worthless layabout. after that I ran out of ideas but now you can ask me literally anything about alex jones."
None of this was the point of your post, and Marvin the Paranoid Android is a funnier way to describe most of this anyway, but I don't edit my posts and
<Marlin Clock> This thread seems proof positive that divisiveness at any level is usually bad for the Clock Crew.
<PhantomCatClock> are we talking about the same clock crew

Slurpee

the first 1:20 of this trailer is distractingly similar to The Void II
[u2]89OP78l9oF0[/u2]

PhantomCatClock

Quote from: RobClock on February 16, 2018, 03:12:01 PM
I like this image

the chinese word for the english flag literally translates to "uncooked rice symbol flag" because it looks like the symbol for uncooked rice 米
-the more you know-



Quote from: Slurpee on February 16, 2018, 02:48:57 PM
satisfying, similar noises: rain on the roof, sizzling bacon, bong rip

whistling via breathing inwards with some spit on the tip of your tongue

GreyClock

Quote from: Randy on February 16, 2018, 11:35:32 PMI don't anticipate technological advancement or accessibility to the extent you're describing within my lifetime, so I'm going to go back to scratching my pits after thinking about it for a minute, but:
Sufficiently advanced AI would, of course, be quick to pick up on patterns and anything else we communicate, and put two and two together because that's what AI does. I don't think the AI getting bored and thinking of you as a simp would be a problem. Unlike humans, or dogs, for example, computers don't have feelings about being challenged or learning new things, or even about being melted with a flamethrower. They only have "feelings" when humans set the parameters for input that should result in an output of human-described signals which, when expressed between humans, are an indication of how the other human feels. They are not actual feelings. They will not affect performance or will to live unless they are programmed to do so. Meaty computers are hard to figure out and they break a lot, so switching off human feelings is hard. A computer's feelings would not be difficult to switch off. "Yes, melt me with a flamethrower. Based on data I have collected about things you think are 'fun,' I predict that destroying me would be 'fun' for you, and on this basis I would advise you to do it."
I think only a moron who believes he's a sapiosexual would attempt to be in a Serious Relationship with an AI programmed with the human tendency to get bored without new things to do, with the "intelligence" dial set to MAX. He'd turn it down pretty quickly. But computers would have to be pretty dumb and slow-learning (for a computer) to relate to humans anyway. There'd be an emotional uncanny valley as well as a physical one. If your computer buddy never forgets anything and can quote you word for word on some stupid shit you said in passing five years ago that wasn't otherwise important, that's creepy. If your e-girlfriend knew what books you liked and could always recommend something that was up your alley right away, or could talk to you about every book you'd ever read in seconds, we're sort of talking about Ask Jeeves. I'm extremely aroused by balding Internet butlers, but others might enjoy the experience of recommending a book to someone who's never read it before, asking them how it is, and hearing their thoughts as they get through it. It's also easier to teach a computer to comprehend a text than it would be to identify what a computer should "feel" about it based on its "personality." That's something we wouldn't need to put a cap on until we got to a point where computers never said "I don't know how I feel about x."
You'd probably also want a human-relationship AI to spend its time working at a human pace, doing "work" eight hours a day, taking naps, watching TV, sometimes wanting to get take-out or go hiking or something instead of being all "welcome home. i have created a montage of your favorite pornography scenes. this took me about an hour so i had a talk with your dad's robot and learned as much as I could about how he thinks you're a worthless layabout. after that I ran out of ideas but now you can ask me literally anything about alex jones."
None of this was the point of your post, and Marvin the Paranoid Android is a funnier way to describe most of this anyway, but I don't edit my posts and
Cool. I'm going to scattershit out some more thoughts on this because it's fun:

Yeah I was mostly basing myself on the AI as portrayed in the movie. I don't know if (one of the) questions the movie was trying to ask was "Can computers feel?", but if I take the dialog at face value, the answer is yes, because the AI said it developed some very complex feelings that couldn't even be put into words (despite a presumably staggering vocabulary). There are a lot of levels to all of this: what is a feeling? If you strip it down to its bare essentials, it's a chemical reaction hardwired into us after millions of years of evolution. These feelings all serve pretty particular functions. Love feels good + fucking feels good = offspring. When you're hungry, you eat. Most of it is based on self-preservation, or preservation of the species at least. When you program that basis into a sufficiently complex (learning) AI, I'd be very interested in the results. (Basically Asimov's third rule.) "I have this camera that allows me to "see" my surroundings : if it breaks I can't see : if I can't see I'm more likely to come into harm : I should protect the camera : how can I do that : build thermal, pressure, electrical, etc. sensors around it [nerves] : put a plexiglass dome over it [eyelid]." At some point maybe we'll build advanced biological computers, then what.

In the movie at some point the AI is talking to 674 (whatever) people simultaneously, which the antagonist takes as a slight... Here the (maybe misattributed and misremembered) quote from Stephen Hawking comes to mind with regards to advanced alien lifeforms treating humans, like humans treat ants. (Humans and worms -deGrasse Tyson?)

If you poke me in the arm, I feel pain. If I poke you in the arm, do you feel pain? Presumably. I could hook you up to machines and see the reaction to the poke in your brain. It might even be identical to the response shown when I'm hooked up to those same machines, but the actual feeling could be entirely different and we would never be able to tell. (That said, logically, it's probably very similar.) Imagine future experiments. (All of these are "alive", whatever that means.) If you grow a human arm connected to a brain, and poke the arm, does it feel pain? What if you lego together that same human arm and brain from atoms, does that feel pain? What if you substitute only certain materials? What if you build it from completely different materials?

(Also I should say that I'm very much a materialist in the philosophical sense and think consciousness is a by-product of evolution and nothing more than overly complex software on shit hardware. Like Windows 10 (but good) on a 486. Whereas most other animals are running Windows 3.11 or DOS. (I'm not sure if that analogy totally flies, but you get the gist.))

The uncanny valley you're talking about exists within human interaction as well. I mean I've run into people on the street going "Hey Bill, how's your dog Jeff?" and I could tell from their faces that they're literally going "Who in the fuck of fucks is this fuck?" "Remember me? We used to go to the same school together ten years ago? We shared some very brief interactions about three times." Now I self-correct. A learning AI could self-correct as well. Which I think is important, because I think it's pretty creepy if you as a human are restricting AI by flipping a switch just so you can fuck it or whatever. It's a fine line between forming a (for the sake of argument) real connection with AI as portrayed in the movie, versus it just being a hyperadvanced real doll. Then again AI only has to be just convincing enough to be convincing enough, right.

I just got off work and I'm tired as fuck so some of this is only half-cooked, but I'm also not gonna edit and stop now, bye!

GreyClock

"My God, what is this feeling?"
"Well, you know the-the feeling that you're... that you're feeling is-is what many of us call 'a feeling.'"
"But it's not like envy, or even hungry."
"Could it be love?"
"I know what an erection feels like, Michael. No, it's the opposite. It's... it's like my heart is getting hard."

RobClock

I threw my 'mosesberry' clock day NG skin up on the art portal today, after i realized i hadn't already.

https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/robertclock/mosesberry-the-one-commandment

throw a five at it, if you feel so inclined

JambaClock