Author Topic: Revision to wording of Rule 6  (Read 2804 times)

RibsClock

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« on: September 20, 2011, 04:26:03 PM »
Regarding stealing usernames.

The text of the rule is such:

Quote
6. Do not steal people's names

If you are caught pretending to be someone you are not you will be banned. If a clock alias is taken by a presently inactive user, it does not mean you may claim it.


As was discussed at-length in this thread, there is some present contention that the wording applies to people who have picked names of users that were never active, and would require users that have had their names for years would have to change their names (chosen prior to this administration).

Once we've had some productive discussion on the matter a wording shall be put to a vote (with the aforementioned application being an option, though preferably more clearly worded) and we'll amend the rules accordingly.

Keep discussions productive and oriented towards the merit of each argument. Consider this the warning, this is not a Spam thread or a General thread, keep discussion on this particular policy.
[SIGPIC]And there sat Sam, looking cool and calm, in the heart of the furnace roar;
And he wore a smile you could see a mile, and he said: "Please close that door.
It\'s fine in here, but I greatly fear you\'ll let in the cold and storm—
Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, it\'s the first time I\'ve been warm."[/SIGPIC]

pop-tart

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 04:45:10 PM »
I work in a commission sales environment.

If potential buyer comes through the threshold, it is the job of the sales associate to engage the customer, build a relationship and close a sale. That is how you earn the right to claim that commission.

You cannot engage clients coming through the door with 'Hey, my name is Dave... now I'm going to walk away and do nothing with you' and when someone else greets the customer and sells them something say 'hey that's my customer!'

Follow?

Ok... Whoever registered blobclock... or poptartclock, thorclock, telephone-clock... did nothing to become part of the CC community. No one can even remember them. We don't even clockify new recruits until they have proven themselves committed... and, I repeat, NO ONE CAN REMEMBER THEM.

The members who assumed those names... without malicious intent... doing their due diligence checking the REAL registry... own those names.. because they... because I.. fucking built it up... earned the right to use it.

Anyone can register a damn name on NG. If we are to stick to this sort of idiotic logic for what constitutes name ownership... then we are no longer the Clock Crew since some random schmuck registered the domain clockcrew.com.

DiscoBallClock

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 05:12:43 PM »
In my opinion, the rule should be:

6. Do not steal people's names.

If you are caught pretending to be someone you are not you will be banned. If a clock alias is taken by a presently inactive user, it does not mean you may claim it. However, if the original owner of the name has made no impact on the Crew, be it through posts or movies, then it can be reclaimed after (x amount of time, probably years).

I mean come on, some people come in, take a Clock name, post for a few days, then never come back. I think this is very unfair towards people who try hard to make themselves noticed in the Crew.

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miracle fruit

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 05:12:53 PM »
I think the wording is fine the way it is. But go ahead, start changing rules once you feel like you don't want to abide by or enforce them.

Clarification: Indefinitely chill pill everyone who has a name that is currently taken (until they feel the need to change their name and come back to the Clock Crew). Yes, ban Rose, ban Pop-Tart, ban FloppyDick, ban Thor, ban Shitty Example Here, ban Shitty Example Here, ban Shitty Example Here



DiscoBallClock

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 05:17:15 PM »
Quote from: MiracleFruitClock;1856514
I think the wording is fine the way it is. But go ahead, start changing rules once you feel like you don't want to abide by or enforce them.

 
Have you thought that maybe we're trying to improve things and aren't lazy at all? If we wanted to outright change stuff we would without even asking everyone, we're asking your input in order to make it better for you, it would be nice if you would recognize that we "don't want to enforce rules". You're entitled to your own opinion, but don't blame us for trying to change directions.

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miracle fruit

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2011, 05:19:36 PM »
Quote from: DiscoBallClock;1856517
Have you thought that maybe we're trying to improve things and aren't lazy at all? If we wanted to outright change stuff we would without even asking everyone, we're asking your input in order to make it better for you, it would be nice if you would recognize that we "don't want to enforce rules". You're entitled to your own opinion, but don't blame us for trying to change directions.

 
You are asking my input and I gave you it

Lazy fuck

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RibsClock

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2011, 05:22:55 PM »
Quote from: MiracleFruitClock;1856514
But go ahead, start changing rules once you feel like you don't want to abide by or enforce them.

Allow me to clarify: this is exactly the sort of thing I am saying not to do, argue against the arguer instead of the merit of the argument itself, especially with an incredibly unfounded attack.

It is only because I can see how you could have missed that that was what I was talking about that I didn't ban you for this. Keep it clean, no jabs whatsoever. That goes for everyone. I will ban the next offender.

EDIT: nm that makes that clearer.
[SIGPIC]And there sat Sam, looking cool and calm, in the heart of the furnace roar;
And he wore a smile you could see a mile, and he said: "Please close that door.
It\'s fine in here, but I greatly fear you\'ll let in the cold and storm—
Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, it\'s the first time I\'ve been warm."[/SIGPIC]

screwclock

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2011, 05:22:58 PM »
if said clock was prevalent enough to have been in a flash then his name shall not be taken from him/her

screwclock

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 05:26:25 PM »
Quote from: pop-tart clock;1856494

Ok... Whoever registered blobclock...  NO ONE CAN REMEMBER THEM.

what about renegade
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 05:30:47 PM by screwclock »

Slurpee

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2011, 05:26:45 PM »
The intention of the rule is obviously not the strict enforcement of the rule in and of itself, but to give the staff leeway to enforce a long-standing community practice. It's a problem that crops up whenever we have a steady flow of new members: somebody thinks they can take a name that they're not entitled to. The rule is there so that when somebody joins and insists on calling himself cabbage, we can point to it and say tough titties, you don't have any rights here, change your name or we're going to ban you.

The problem is that sometimes a name is taken by somebody who hasn't made much of a mark- usually somebody who joined in the post-Void II/pre-collapse era, and maybe made a few posts, but contributed nothing substantive and is not widely remembered. It's a question of how to protect members like Evil and Moxie, who were respected and fondly recalled but not around anymore, but not, say, ElectricClock. Anybody remember him? ANYBODY REMEMBER OUR GOOD FRIEND ELECTRICCLOCK.

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HIS BIRTHDAY WAS JUNE 5TH

What if my handle for the past 7 years was ElectricClock, and this was just dredged up?
How about if it was SlurpeeClock?

We let Tropicana keep his name because he was unquestionably more closely associated with the name than the other guy that nobody talks about. We even put it to a vote.


The problem with adding an exception to the wording, though, is it detracts from the spirit of the law, because it gives dipshits something to point to and say oh yeah well what about that? And suddenly the rule is not the final word on the matter of The People V. CarrotClock 2011. I say this not to denote the task as impossible but merely to point out that an expanded wording that will actually work is going to be unwieldy and look ugly as sin.

Anyway here's my suggested expanded wording that's unwieldy and looks ugly as sin:
   6. Do not steal people's names

If you are caught pretending to be someone you are not you will be banned. If a clock alias is taken by a presently inactive user, it does not mean you may claim it.

If, at your time of joining, it comes to light that your name of preference has already been claimed by a user, active or not, you must come up with another one or you will be banned.

Adverse possession: An exception can be made on your behalf IF AND ONLY IF (1) No objections to your claiming the name have been made over a period of 9 months after your first claim of the name on the Clock Crew forums AND (2) You've made regular claim to it during that period AND (3) You've contributed in some memorable way to the community, preferably Flash animation AND (4) The previous owner had not contributed any Flash that passed judgement on Newgrounds.com or played a significant role in any crew-related events AND (5) Your claim to the name is sincere and unique. If you feel your case meets ALL of these qualifications, contact an administrator and request that they put it to a community vote. If you pass with a simple majority, the name will be passed on to you. It is highly recommended that you instead simply invent a unique name and lay claim to it.

Sombra

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 05:32:05 PM »
Yeah this might come out as rambling a little so just ask me to clarify on anything and I will.

It's sad to see a clock produce a lot of flash, get attached to their flash avatar, and then have something like this happen. I don't know Blob well but looking at his NG it looks like he's done a fuckton of work too and put a lot of effort into establishing an identity, especially since he's only been with us for about a year and a half and produced so much. He also said that he'd take a permaban from the forums if it meant not giving up his name.

I think we should loosen the rules about name re-usage and add a statue of limitations where after a certain period of inactivity, the name is "recycled" and usable again for potential clocks. The statute would ONLY ever come into effect if the nameholder first never really did anything with their NG and or .cc accounts. If they were active at some point ever beyond say, a week's worth of posting/ movie reviewing then the name is safe as theirs as long as they live.

It's also a reality that the amount of available clock names slowly decreases as more members gain clockhood and take names. I think clocks are pretty inventive and we'll definitely be able to come up with plenty more ideas, maybe turning to clock names from fantasy, sci fi, video games e.g. KatamariClock but there's a finite amount of unique shit in the world. If we continue protecting the names of people who maybe grab an account on the forums, post 5 times and then drop off the face of the earth to never return, or register on NG and review a few movies before disappearing forever, we're just decreasing the fresh name pool by that much more. I know it sucks because there's a small chance that they'll come back next clock day or something after getting caught up in all the hype and excitement, but that goes back to my suggestion that we add a statute of limitations.

GreyClock

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 05:48:22 PM »
Overall I'm definitely for upholding the age-old practice of not allowing people to take inactive names. However I do think that should problems arise, like they have recently, they need to be judged on a case by case basis. Examples:

PoptartClock: if you look at the (few) reviews this guy has on Newgrounds, it's obvious he never had any intention of being part of the Clock Crew. In fact he's talking about how he's an anti-clock from something lame called the NewClockCrew. In my opinion that means that Pop-Tart can stay Pop-Tart.

BlobClock: based on the other clocks in that slideshow, who I all remember apart from two, it's reasonable to assume that Renegade, instead of pulling random names out of his ass, made a thread on an old Clock Crew website offering to render people in 3d. It's also reasonable to assume that the original BlobClock posted in that thread, resulting in him being included. His review and Renegade's response display a familiarity, not just with each other, but with a third member RoboDeathClock, who I do remember. In fact Renegade asks Blob about Robo's whereabouts, which leads me to believe they were friends. In which case I feel we definitely need to draw the line. As for current Blob, it sucks that he is prepared to take a permaban over this, but he should have known it was taken since the day he registered ClockofBlob on Newgrounds.

Sombra

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 05:48:47 PM »
Slurpee, looking at what you said about the spirit of the rule being that it should be fairly open to staff interpretation which allows for "no-brainer" cases to be taken care of quickly and unanimously. I don't have grid access or anything so I'm aware that my understanding of current affairs might not be totally accurate but it seems like the zeitgeist of the CC right now is super literal interpretation of the rules and a lot of bickering over what exactly can and can't be interpreted from them etc. So maybe we need to address that specific aspect of this whole argument.

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 05:59:42 PM »
Quote from: screwclock;1856523
if said clock was prevalent enough to have been in a flash then his name shall not be taken from him/her
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that Flash was made because Renegade made a thread saying "Hey request to be made in 3D"

AKA He signed up, asked somebody to draw him, and somebody drew him
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PatriotClock

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 06:04:35 PM »
Quote from: Slurpee;1856525
Anyway here's my suggested expanded wording that's unwieldy and looks ugly as sin:
   6. Do not steal people's names

If you are caught pretending to be someone you are not you will be banned. If a clock alias is taken by a presently inactive user, it does not mean you may claim it.

If, at your time of joining, it comes to light that your name of preference has already been claimed by a user, active or not, you must come up with another one or you will be banned.

Adverse possession: An exception can be made on your behalf IF AND ONLY IF (1) No objections to your claiming the name have been made over a period of 9 months after your first claim of the name on the Clock Crew forums AND (2) You've made regular claim to it during that period AND (3) You've contributed in some memorable way to the community, preferably Flash animation AND (4) The previous owner had not contributed any Flash that passed judgement on Newgrounds.com or played a significant role in any crew-related events AND (5) Your claim to the name is sincere and unique. If you feel your case meets ALL of these qualifications, contact an administrator and request that they put it to a community vote. If you pass with a simple majority, the name will be passed on to you. It is highly recommended that you instead simply invent a unique name and lay claim to it.

 
I can live with this. If this was the way it is worded now I would have zero problem with "Blobs" claim to the name, however in its current state and the fact that "Blob" knew the name was taken when he selected it I feel that at least a temp ban until he chooses a new name (preferably DumpsterClock).

Slurpee

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 06:05:51 PM »
Quote from: Sombra;1856536
I don't have grid access or anything so I'm aware that my understanding of current affairs might not be totally accurate but it seems like the zeitgeist of the CC right now is super literal interpretation of the rules and a lot of bickering over what exactly can and can't be interpreted from them etc. So maybe we need to address that specific aspect of this whole argument.
That's a bit of a can of worms; we're actually in the middle of a spirited debate about word of law in the Grid right now.
Some of us feel the less clear-cut things need to be put under tighter definition to avoid staff abuse and entitle users to defend themselves, others believe staff discretion is generally sufficient and tighter rules will just encourage certain users to deliberately look for loopholes to get away with shit, or even just to bring the staff under undue scrutiny. I wonder what would ever give them that idea :?

You can guess which camp I fall under.

Quote from: Topcatyo;1856543
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that Flash was made because Renegade made a thread saying "Hey request to be made in 3D"

AKA He signed up, asked somebody to draw him, and somebody drew him
This is absolutely what happened.
I believe it was on Biological's clockcrew.net.

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2011, 06:12:29 PM »
:this:

I remember that 3D thread (mostly because I participated in it).
+1 for slurp's changes to the rule.

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2011, 06:18:22 PM »
Quote from: Topcatyo;1856543
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that Flash was made because Renegade made a thread saying "Hey request to be made in 3D"

AKA He signed up, asked somebody to draw him, and somebody drew him

 
This is what I think happened. But yeah grey makes a good point about the username thing. He clearly knew it was someone else's name and thought he could get away with it.

buttplug

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2011, 07:07:29 PM »
Quote from: MiracleFruitClock;1856514
I think the wording is fine the way it is. But go ahead, start changing rules once you feel like you don't want to abide by or enforce them.

Clarification: Indefinitely chill pill everyone who has a name that is currently taken (until they feel the need to change their name and come back to the Clock Crew). Yes, ban Rose, ban Pop-Tart, ban FloppyDick, ban Thor, ban Shitty Example Here, ban Shitty Example Here, ban Shitty Example Here

 
Nothing wrong with re-defining something that has become a point of contention.

Sombra

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Revision to wording of Rule 6
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2011, 07:52:14 PM »
Since our ideas were pretty similar but Slurps clarified his better, I'm gonna put my word toward Slurpee's redraft of the rule as well. Yeah it's a little longer than the old one but I think a few sentences are worth it if we can potentially avoid situations like these in the future. Also a little room for interpretation which I think can only aid law systems like this.