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Initiative to make any changes to the rules and charter a matter of full public vote

Farted by miracle fruit, October 28, 2011, 07:56:08 PM

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Make any changes to the rules/charter a matter of public vote?

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8 (100%)
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0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: November 11, 2011, 07:56:45 PM

miracle fruit

the common people should have the right to vote for/against the rules they must abide by

SockpuppetClock

I don't see any real precedent examples of abuse for this initiative to exist.

miracle fruit

clear example of abuse

they effectively made the rules even more hazy and bendable to the staffs interpretation while completely removing our own right to protest in the same fashion

SoBe Clock

Quote from: MiracleFruitClock;1871928clear example of abuse

they effectively made the rules even more hazy and bendable to the staffs interpretation while completely removing our own right to protest in the same fashion

Topcatyo explained it pretty succinctly in that thread.

QuoteBasically the rule is this:

Don't break the rules.

Don't make parody threads breaking the rule.

Don't make a protest thread breaking the rules to prove a point.

Don't try to get around breaking a rule by being a smartass, IE "I didn't post a torrent! I posted a link to a torrent!"

If you don't like a rule, tell us or make an initiative. We will do our best to rectify things.

The rule is not that you're not allowed to disagree with a rule and do something about it in a productive fashion. For clarification: productive fashion would be discussing the rule with the staff and making an initiative about changing or repealing the decision. This rule does not make the rules system free to whatever interpretation the staff wants, which is what you're implying.

Also, corpsegrinder said it succinctly when he said:

Quote from: RibsClock;1871873The regular members have more say in the rules than they ever have.

The staff have less individual authority and discretion than they ever have.

The regular members have more say when it comes to choosing staff than they ever have.

The regular members have more say when it comes to getting rid of and dealing with abusive staff than they ever have.

The staff are more bound to the rules than they ever have been.

Just a shot of perspective for you folks that are complaining about how unjust and unfair this supposedly is.

We are not abusing the system, and we are not abusive staff members. We're on your side and I don't get why some people are so up in arms about us being horrible and abusive when we clearly aren't.

AbsintheClock


SoBe Clock

Quote from: AbsintheClock;1871934Down with the bourgeois! Bow before your new proletariat god!

Also, no pooftahs.

DWARFINATORclock


AbsintheClock

Quote from: SoBe Clock;1871935Also, no pooftahs.

What he said.

Also Dwarf, I don't recall you giving anyone any say when you and clam were running the place. And don't give me that "it was your administration too" crap. If it was my administration too then you would have invited me to the staff blast chats.

YoYoClock

The fact is some people who take the clock crew too seriously get all butt hurt if they aren't considered cool enough to be staff after a certain amount of time. Maybe they don't even realise it yet. This is especially bad now that seniority doesn't explicitly come into play any more regarding staff appointments. Some people take consequently redirect this rage at the current staff in an effort to establish an "us vs. them" mentality, thereby assuring themselves as the super cool winners of the clockcrew even though they aren't staff

It's also already very apparent which way this vote is gonna go so let's never talk about it again lest we all die of boredom and mind pains and rip out our own eyes with dissatisfaction at the free will and internet that life bestows upon some people

by Thor + Satellite

Quote from: pop-tart clock;1905428I think yoyo is the best one.

clockradioclock

Quote from: MiracleFruitClock;1871928clear example of abuse

they effectively made the rules even more hazy and bendable to the staffs interpretation while completely removing our own right to protest in the same fashion

How is this hazy and bendable? You're being purposely vague here because you have no idea what exactly you're arguing. Miraclefruit, my dear, beautiful Miraclefruit, the rule is "don't minimod and don't break rules." Your own hazy and bendable interpretation of such a clear rule removes your right to protest. All other clocks are free to protest as the will, assuming they understand that they can't break rules to do so.

When a road sign declares "Do not cross," do you interpret it as "Do not pray to a christian god near this sign, lest he smite you"?
[SIGPIC]dance with me[/SIGPIC]

AbsintheClock

It means horse thief crossing. I actually typed horse thief too, and not that other word when I wrote this.

miracle fruit

Quote from: clockradioclock;1871944the rule is "don't minimod and don't break rules."

ahaha and apparently i'm the one who didnt read the rule

QuoteDon't try and smartass your way around rules: the staff are not bound to your interpretation or wrangling of the rules.

so while the staff are not bound to our interpretation or wrangling of the rules, we however are bound to their interpretation or wrangling of the rules

DWARFINATORclock

Quote from: AbsintheClock;1871939What he said.

Also Dwarf, I don't recall you giving anyone any say when you and clam were running the place. And don't give me that "it was your administration too" crap. If it was my administration too then you would have invited me to the staff blast chats.

you mean the staff blast that sobe created and was the only admin of and that never got used? im pretty sure we discussed most site related things in the grid or in irc, and everyone was invited to irc, which was public knowledge so dont pretend you dont know. it definitely was your administration as well but at the time apparently you just didnt care enough to participate at the level that you do now youre admin.

I1I1I1I1I1I1I11111I1I1I1IIIIIII1I1I1I1I11I

Quote from: PezDispenserclock;1948598Abba, I might not smoke weed, but I experiancing it being hit with a crowbar on a modded TTT server. Flashing colours, screen flipped, screen flying. Yup, I know how it\'s like.

clockradioclock

Quote from: MiracleFruitClock;1871954i'm the one who didnt read the rule
Yes, that is correct.

Quote from: MiracleFruitClock;1871954so while the staff are not bound to our interpretation or wrangling of the rules, we however are bound to their interpretation or wrangling of the rules
No. The staff are bound to a single interpretation of the rule, and that is what's written on the page.

An example of "your interpretation of the rules" vs "the rules" was when you posted a host of torrent sites to prove a point. By your interpretation, there was nothing illegal and you were safe. According to the rules, posting links to torrent sites of any kind will result in a ban. Rule 10 is an exact reaction to your stupidity. Contest a rule by explaining why it's wrong, don't contest it by breaking it. You've proved nothing in breaking it.
[SIGPIC]dance with me[/SIGPIC]

AnkhClock

As an American I support representative democracy. Long live the Clock Crew! :salute:



SoBe Clock

Quote from: DWARFINATORclock;1871955you mean the staff blast that sobe created and was the only admin of and that never got used?

That actually is true. I did create that blast and was the admin of it but anyone in the blast could invite anyone to it, it wasn't one of those admin-invite-only blasts. It never really got used at all anyway so we just kind of left it there.

buttplug

Quote from: MiracleFruitClock;1871954so while the staff are not bound to our interpretation or wrangling of the rules, we however are bound to their interpretation or wrangling of the rules

You need to explain why they are wrong and you are right.

miracle fruit

Quote from: clockradioclock;1871957No. The staff are bound to a single interpretation of the rule, and that is what's written on the page.

what a crock of bullshit

really if you believe this is the case then exactly how was i banned for flaming and insults multiple times when what's written on the page says "Flames and insults do not constitute harassment."

so what you're implying is that there is no longer moderator discretion for the rules? what the fuck are you even talking about

Quote from: clockradioclock;1871957An example of "your interpretation of the rules" vs "the rules" was when you posted a host of torrent sites to prove a point. By your interpretation, there was nothing illegal and you were safe. According to the rules, posting links to torrent sites of any kind will result in a ban. Rule 10 is an exact reaction to your stupidity. Contest a rule by explaining why it's wrong, don't contest it by breaking it. You've proved nothing in breaking it.

an example of "the staffs interpretation of the rules" vs "the rules" would be when blob clock stole a clockname, directly defied rule 6 as it was written at the time, and was caught for it, and then certain members of the staff made up a bunch of bullshit that was NOT written in the rules, something about a "statute of limitations" and then a week later changed the rule officially

miracle fruit

Quote from: RibsClock;1871965We're bound to the rules as written, and yes there is discretion in instances of ambiguous application

these two things contradict each other