Permanent death in games

[SoBe Clock]

It's been a while since there was a discussion of a general game mechanic in this subforum rather than a specific game.

Over the past few months I have really discovered how awesome permanent death in games is. For years now I've been in sort of a cycle of getting into an RPG and then getting bored of it as it wears on, particularly dungeon crawlers where once you beat the new game plus, you just sort of have to keep repeating that to keep progressing. Getting into Roguelikes showed me just how much fun permanent death adds to a game.

Permanent death is awesome because it forces you not only to make hard decisions with building your character(s) but to approach the game in an entirely different way. I used to be in the same camp of people that didn't like permadeath because I didn't like the idea of losing characters I've put time into but that's the entire fun of it. Playing a game with permadeath isn't about getting to the endgame and doing boring crap to get better gear, it's about getting as far as you can and surviving as long as you can. If you die, oh well, start up a new character and try to get further this time. There's a certain fun, at least for me, in analyzing what I did wrong that lost me the campaign and theorycrafting new ways to approach the problems to make sure I don't lose to it the next time through. It's the same kind of fun I'd get from theorycrafting to improve at League of Legends or Dota. I'm kicking myself for not getting into this feature years ago.

Hardcore mode has seriously revived my interest and renewed my enjoyment of Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2. It has also had a similar effect with me and Bethesda games. It makes Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim essentially entirely new games. If you die, just delete the save. I think I'll be applying this to most RPG's.

I'm interested to see if anyone else here has considered this or agrees. I know some of you like roguelikes so I'm probably just behind the times but this seems to be the best way to make games like this entertaining for long periods of time for me.

EDIT Basically the best way I can describe it is: As any game gives me the feeling that it has become "going through the motions" or if it becomes a grind, I lose interest very quickly. Most games do this eventually. Permanent death makes that basically not an issue unless the game is designed terribly from the get go.

[Sinister Clock]

It only works if the game is really well designed and not total bullshit. See: Not Minecraft.

[SoBe Clock]

It only works if the game is really well designed and not total bullshit. See: Not Minecraft.

Well yeah, I think it's best suited to RPGs. It doesn't really mesh with the design of something like minecraft. It wouldnt work with action-adventures either, they usually don't have much in the ways of character building and more often than not, test your reflexes more than anything else.

For RPGs and Dungeon Crawlers though, it changes the dynamics of the games completely. It doesn't really allow for a game to become a careless grind since everything around every corner could be the end of your adventure if you get remotely careless.

[Thor]

Permadeath really puts emphasis on being careful. There are tons of things in Nethack for example that can kill you instantly if you make even a simple mistake. Dwarf Fortress does it well too, but you have to screw up pretty bad to lose.

It makes the game a lot more intense and makes it feel like things matter a lot. It also makes it so it is a pure task of skill to complete something, rather than just one of endurance where you keep doing something over and over without giving up.

[PhantomCatClock]

I agree and love roguelikes, but as someone who's ever only made it to the 15th floor or so in Rogue, I just kind of gave up trying to get the stupid amulet and just go for gold scores.

Everything seems so cosmic

[Thor]

The thing about most roguelikes is that like 99% of deaths are in the first 1/10th of the game. Once you hit a threshold and get some good gear it's pretty hard to die unless you do something I'm a edgy teen like eat a cockatrice.

[AnkhClock]

I'm bad at videogames and die a lot. I don't think permadeath is for me.

[TequilaClock]

Fire Emblem is very well known for this and its bullshit as well especially since a lot of the deaths are deus ex machina kills from an enemy unit that just appeared or performing a crit having <10% of odds to do one.

[SpongeClock SquarePants]

Yeah i should totally to this for this shooting game I have where you play a ww2 russian conscript.

[AmberArachnidClock]

I've actually been seriously considering this for the Canvasser game I'm working on.

If you've ever worked as a canvasser before, you're basically clinging on to your job for dear life, and a lot of people last like 1-5 days. There's this whole sort of survival aspect to it that puts a ton of pressure on you to perform well. The thing about Canvasser is that I'd want to implement it in a way where you get kinda far into the game, and then possibly get fired, and then stop playing. Whether you're fired or not, the rest of the canvassers still succeed, so you say basically the same ending either way. The point being that you play your part as a canvasser, come in confused, last as long as you can, and hopefully make a difference in the fight whether you win it or not. I'd be interested in what other people think about that idea since it's a little different than how other games implement permadeath, and doesn't really feed into the "Next time I'm gonna do it better!"

[DWARFINATORclock]

there will be permanent death in the world of darkness mmo

[AlbinoClock]

I'm loving d3 hardcore mode. It's WAY more exciting.

world of darkness mmo

oh my sweet fuck

[DWARFINATORclock]

I'm loving d3 hardcore mode. It's WAY more exciting.



oh my sweet fuck

[U2]ch2vB1ZatPI[/U2]

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

it's pretty hard to die unless you do something I'm a edgy teen like eat a cockatrice.

Wait, you're not supposed to do that?
 

Fire Emblem is very well known for this and its bullshit as well especially since a lot of the deaths are deus ex machina kills from an enemy unit that just appeared or performing a crit having <10% of odds to do one.

It's a wonderful feeling getting through a really hard level by the skin of your teeth and your strongest unit getting skullfucked by an unpromoted unit who just happened to get a critical right at the end.

[buttplug]

I really only play permadeath in singleplayer games like Rogue and Nethack.

[Thor]

Oh wow, a world of darkness game made by CCP. That sounds fucking amazing.

Vampire has always been about deceit, intrigue and backstabbing and I'm pretty sure CCP is better at doing that than any company on earth. I can't think of any game more cutthroat than Eve. Screwing people over is like 90% of the gameplay.

I hope they can bring that same "dog eat dog" style to WoD

[SpongeClock SquarePants]

Oh wow they are actually working on that game?
I fucking love the world of darkness universe, bother the masquerade games are truly awesome.

[TequilaClock]

Cause of death: Stalin

[AstronautClock]

I like turn based strategy games best. deal with it nerds

[Slurpee]

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lmao 2cat




you know what's cool though is when people take shitty games and play them 1 life and make them into AMAZING games




edit: YOLO