How much is too much? Is there such a thing as tasteful graffiti?
I say yes, I always appreciate seeing graffiti, but then again, I've always been the type of person to write / draw on anything I got in my hand. I'm not like, yeah know, owner of land or trains, as well.
I enjoy good graffiti. I've taken pictures of graffiti I see anywhere that I think enhances the visual appeal of the area I'm in.
However if it's some douchebag tagging his name on the Alamo, fuck that shit.
I like it in most cases.
I like spraypainting shit its fun
Quote from: clammo;1887532as with pretty much any other artform, its ruined by the 99.9% there are a few people who do quality graffiti beyond tagging CRUNK behind the walmart, and it can be pretty cool at times. its very very rare though and almost always requested/paid for (minus maybe someone like banksy dont quote me on that cause i really dont know)
tagging peoples property without permission is dumb as all hell
my thoughts exactly
Banksy is a hack
Tagging people's property without permission is sort of an important part of graffiti culture, and occasionally part of what makes a piece impressive (e.g. trespassing and painting elaborate whole-car pieces on subway trains without being caught).
Choosing locations to tag consciously and judiciously is also important.
Then you get into style, artistic merit, and all of that.
Graffiti is art by self-intitled douches who go out and ruin other people stuff instead of using canves like a sane person. I enjoy the aesthetic of graffiti art, but I loath the kind of person that would draw it. Even worse than the gang bangers who put up signs to facilitate orginized crime are the misguided anarchists who think that they're making some sort of anti-establishment message; all they're really doing is damaging property that somebody worked hard to obtain (in the case of private property vandalism) or leaching tax payer dollars (in the case of government buildings; this leaching is in addition to their welfare checks and use of various public services. The irony is palpable).
EDIT: I can see no reason why art should require inflicting misery on others.
Quote from: Thor;1887638EDIT: I can see no reason why art should require inflicting misery on others.
i dont believe a troll like yourself can not see the reason why
Quote from: DWARFINATORclock;1887639i dont believe a troll like yourself can not see the reason why
Humor and art are very different things.
And of course, anybody who falls for my trolling has only themselves to blame; I mearly left the bait, it wasn't I who bit.
Quote from: Thor;1887640Humor and art are very different things.
but they dont have to be
Art and humor can be used together but a lot of graffiti isnt done humorously, or even artistically, its just done by idiots who think they're "street" and want people to recognize their I'm a edgy teen little gang.
As with most things, I try to see both sides. Graffiti is sort of like the Tyler Durden philosophy expressed in art form. Don't strive for a perfect, crisp, clean human society with pearl-white buildings when it's against our nature to be robots. Nothing is perfect. We're all going to die. Fuck it, let's have some fun and paint some shit up.
I love seeing interesting, artistic graffiti, but it annoys me when people just tag a building with their name or something like that. I guess I only like the graffiti that has some effort in it, and isn't just there to mess up someone's wall with slang.
even at a more base level of expression ie marking territory, display of ego, collective identity etc i think it is a powerful artistic medium because it exerts such a physical presence in the urban 'landscape' and becomes a manifestation of culture that challenges the established perceptional expectations of one's reality
it sometimes looks rlly bad
Quote from: F U Clock;1887660As with most things, I try to see both sides. Graffiti is sort of like the Tyler Durden philosophy expressed in art form. Don't strive for a perfect, crisp, clean human society with pearl-white buildings when it's against our nature to be robots. Nothing is perfect. We're all going to die. Fuck it, let's have some fun and paint some shit up.
If they just want to change a town aesthetic why don't they paint on their own damn house instead of shitting all over somebody elses hard earned real estate? If somebody spends decades maintaining a company to the point they own valuable city property I think they have more right to enjoy it then some punk kid who's never worked a day in his life.
Quote from: Thor;1887674why don't they paint on their own damn house
Lol what house?
Graffiti is counter-establishment. It's the guerilla-terrorism of the art world. The MAN has oppressed them, spat on them, kicked them to the curb, but they can't stop them from spreading the message under the cover of night. The clean white city is the establishment. Graffiti is the expression of a counter-culture demanding attention and letting the world know of its presence.
also i have no complaint with them painting up unused trains or abandoned buildings
Quote from: F U Clock;1887675Lol what house?
Graffiti is counter-establishment. It's the guerilla-terrorism of the art world. The MAN has oppressed them, spat on them, kicked them to the curb, but they can't stop them from spreading the message under the cover of night. The clean white city is the establishment. Graffiti is the expression of a counter-culture demanding attention and letting the world know of its presence.
"Damn the man! I'll show the government for making me too lazy to work by defacing the private property of an entrepreneur!" says the jobless man holding his welfare check at the food bank that he got to on the city bus on state funded highways. He then returns to his state funded low rent apartments to contemplate what style he should write his own name in on a random store.
Truly this is a tale of a heroic champion of independence.
[/strawman]
Quote from: Thor;1887815"Damn the man! I'll show the government for making me too lazy to work by defacing the private property of an entrepreneur!" says the jobless man holding his welfare check at the food bank that he got to on the city bus on state funded highways. He then returns to his state funded low rent apartments to contemplate what style he should write his own name in on a random store.
Truly this is a tale of a heroic champion of independence.
[/strawman]
Spoken like a true honkey. SHOULD I SHINE YA SHOES, CRACKAMAN!?
So wait this is about race now? I was envisioning a a lazy drug abusing wangster; ie a typical graffiti "artist".
also nice ad hominem. I raise you an "appeal to authority" by pointing it out. This thread is a buffet of fallaciousness. Better than the clock crew's typical buffet of fellatio, at least.
Quote from: Thor;1887853So wait this is about race now? I was envisioning a a lazy drug abusing wangster; ie a typical graffiti "artist".
also nice ad hominem. I raise you an "appeal to authority" by pointing it out. This thread is a buffet of fallaciousness. Better than the clock crew's typical buffet of fellatio, at least.
Looks like SOMEBODY took philosophy 101!
I've been playing a Black Panther graffiti artist character my last few posts. His name is Luther.
You seem to think that all private property is owned by wealthy entrepreneurs who worked hard for it. You'd be surprised how many rich douchebags there are whose daddies got them jobs right out of Yale (which they got into because they were rich and legacy) and then gave them their company after their heart got too weak from eating fatback three times a week for thirty years. One of my roommates in College didn't know the Sun was a star. He took 6 years to get his bachelor's. He's now working as a financial advisor in a major national bank because his daddy runs the joint.
Meanwhile Chuck down the street who was raised in a low-income family of people who never went to College and never could go to College himself (and never believed he could because he's been told by those around him and society at large from day 1 that he'd never amount to anything) decides he wants to make something of himself, so he goes and gets a job. Of course the only job he can get is in the local steel factory. It sucks but he gets by. Until they replace him with a machine/outsource his job/whatever. He looks to the skyline and sees the corporate office of the company that owns the factory, and thinks about the fatcat running it who only got the job because his parents played golf together. He goes to that building and he paints a big dick on the side of it. Because seriously, FUCK those guys.
The next day they paint over it.
Chuck gets hit by a car and dies.
ThorClock laughs, stroking his beard.
Its their own fault for being poor. Me and Thor can't help that we're smarter than black people.
That hypothetical kid wasn't very smart if he couldn't figure out how to get low income loans to go to college. In America, especially if you're black, there are an obscenely large amount of ways to get PAID to go to college so long as you do decently in school. If he had gone out and gotten a reasonable degree he could have gotten a job, instead of being a dick to somebody who was luckier than him. Just because somebody is successful is no reason for them to be punished. I'm going to stop here before I start quoting Ayn Rand.
Also he should have looked both ways before he crossed the road.
Quote from: FloundermanClock;1887857Its their own fault for being poor. Me and Thor can't help that we're smarter than black people.
:hi5:
Quote from: Thor;1887815"Damn the man! I'll show the government for making me too lazy to work by defacing the private property of an entrepreneur!" says the jobless man holding his welfare check at the food bank that he got to on the city bus on state funded highways. He then returns to his state funded low rent apartments to contemplate what style he should write his own name in on a random store.
Truly this is a tale of a heroic champion of independence.
[/strawman]
Trust me, Thor, if you know the lives and stories of the people who developed graffiti in the 70's and 80's into the art form that it is today, you'd probably be a bit more understanding, not to mention the way street art effects third-world countries. This doesn't just apply to America and the U.K.
pff, fuck college. the way i see it, nowadays, college is nothing but a way to pay a bunch of money to be a kid a little bit longer before going out into the world and not getting a job.
jeez clockcrew sometime u are really DUMB
dont make me bust out the winter of your discontent on yo assssssssssssssssssssssssss sponge bitch
no
HERE IT COMES
aaaaahppppjhhhhhththththfgfffft
thats a fart on your brain directly inside your skull now...YOUR A FRAT BOY
Can somebody post a SINGLE valid reason for Graffiti other than just being a complete asshole to spite "the man"? All I've heard so far in support of graffiti is "if you only knew why they did it!" or "wow you are dumb!". That isn't how you argue a point people. How about TELLING me the stories of the people who developed graffiti in the 70's and 80's right here in this thread unstead of offhandedly mentioning it in a way that's impossible to refute?
Quote from: Thor;1888810Can somebody post a SINGLE valid reason for Graffiti other than just being a complete asshole to spite "the man"? All I've heard so far in support of graffiti is "if you only knew why they did it!" or "wow you are dumb!". That isn't how you argue a point people. How about TELLING me the stories of the people who developed graffiti in the 70's and 80's right here in this thread unstead of offhandedly mentioning it in a way that's impossible to refute?
The better question is, why NOT do graffiti, maaan!?
No but in all seriousness, you're asking for justification of an art form which is huge, varied, global, and has no singular purpose. Graffiti is used by gangs to mark territory in turf wars. It's used by some as a form of advertising protest. It's used by some to create an anonymous memorial. Some people make street art that people generally like. Some people use it to say, I'm an anarchist, fuck you.
Now, I'll say I visited a cemetary recently and saw graffiti on the mausoleums and THAT I find pretty inexcusable. There's no reason I can conceive of to deface someone's burial site... unless that person was a Nazi that killed your family maybe...
I'd say for graffiti what I would do with any art form, be it music or otherwise.
There are those who are talented and do good things with the art form they are skilled in. However, you have the other 99% who see it and are like "I WNAT TO DO THAT TOO" and give those with talent a bad name.
As for justification for graffiti, I can't really justify it for you other than saying that I've seen many instances of people doing good graffiti. I saw this part of a PBS doc about some graffiti artists (in the doc they were opening their own art gallery somewhere) where they talked about the works they do, and it showed the many beautiful and creative works these people had done to otherwise ugly places.
In it, the one artist said something that really stuck out for me. He said (I'm paraphrasing here): "What's the difference between my works and billboards? I cover things because I want them to look beautiful, billboards cover things to sell you shit you don't need."
While every graffiti artist doesn't have the same view as that guy, those who do I think in general have a general idea of how not to fuck up a city like the kind of person FU described who would trash a graveyard.
In the end it's really up to you about whether you consider it a valid art form, be it illegal or not.
I consider killing jews an art form.
Killing jews should really be ok with everybody, including the jews themselves, this is true because i consider it art. why don't those fucking jews feel privileged when they get shot?
so holocaust denial is denial of my rights of arts and expression. if you dont like killing jews you dont know what art is.
this is how i read this thread
Quote from: SpongeClock SquarePants;1889215I consider killing jews an art form.
Killing jews should really be ok with everybody, including the jews themselves, this is true because i consider it art. why don't those fucking jews feel privileged when they get shot?
so holocaust denial is denial of my rights of arts and expression. if you dont like killing jews you dont know what art is.
this is how i read this thread
Having a building you own painted without your permission is pretty much the same as having someone murder you and everyone like you.
Quote from: SpongeClock SquarePants;1889215I consider killing jews an art form.
Killing jews should really be ok with everybody, including the jews themselves, this is true because i consider it art. why don't those fucking jews feel privileged when they get shot?
so holocaust denial is denial of my rights of arts and expression. if you dont like killing jews you dont know what art is.
this is how i read this thread
GODWINNED
I consider killing jews a higher artform than graffiti.
Quote from: Topcatyo;1889244GODWINNED
i put the win in godwin.
yes /thread plz
In what way is Graffiti any different than shitting on somebodies porch and calling it art, or burning down somebodies house and calling it art?
It's not different. It's just being a dick and using art as an excuse.
edit; Fuck i should have read spongeclocks reply before posting this, now I just sound redundant
Quote from: Thor;1890034In what way is Graffiti any different than shitting on somebodies porch and calling it art, or burning down somebodies house and calling it art?
It's not different. It's just being a dick and using art as an excuse.
Just because something is dickish doesn't make it not art. A painting is a painting. The difference between the Sistine Chapel and graffiti is the church payed Mikey to put that on their ceiling.
But I don't think you're questioning whether it's art, just saying that people use that term to hide behind doing something that is inherently wrong. And again, it comes down to perspective. I hope you realize I'm playing Devil's Advocate a little bit and don't really have a dog in this fight. But a lot of graffiti artists fundamentally see the world differently than you do. You ask how you'd feel if someone spray painted a goofy thing on the building that you own. Well I think they would answer, "Pretty fucking awesome, because I own a God-damned building."
I'm not saying Graffiti isn't art. I'm of the opinion that the term "art" is entirely subjective and literally anything can be considered art if you think hard enough about it.
My point is that Graffiti is morally wrong and anybody who does it without consent of the person whose property they are drawing on is an asshole. People who use Graffiti art style on sanctioned walls are not making graffiti, they're making murals. Which is different, because it's not illegal and amoral (note: I am not implying that something being illegal makes it amoral of vice versa)
(https://clockcrew.net/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clockcrew.cc%2Ftalk%2Fimage.php%3Fu%3D1964%26dateline%3D1323925066&hash=4fb6aed9d78baa29475e5ce5ca28804a82b33840)
I'm not angry, I'm just passionate.
Passionate about a pointless discussion of the morality of graffiti on a website about fruit that talk about butts.