Clock Crew

what do you think is tarnishing the once respectable art form we all know and love?
just off the top of my head I've got:
dark side of the moon t-shirts
dev2.0
the 90's
MCR
William shatner
Beatles/other oldies remakes in commercials
Limewire
disney

eh
yes
no
yes
no
eh
eh
yes

MT-Goddamned-V.

Quote from: ChimeClock;1421815eh
yes
no
yes
no
eh
eh
yes

Ok I can respect that.
How about guitar hero?

Quote from: Frank The Bunny;1421824Ok I can respect that.
How about guitar hero?

OUCH! Definitely.

Though it's made me more interested in music... I must be an exception to the rule.

Quote from: Lexington;1421825OUCH! Definitely.

Though it's made me more interested in music... I must be an exception to the rule.

and you are because I assume you're not the kind of shithead it generally attracts which makes it such a tool of destruction in the first place

Quote from: Frank The Bunny;1421828and you are because I assume you're not the kind of shithead it generally attracts which makes it such a tool of destruction in the first place

Yeah. I'm not "I want to be awesome without having to work I KNOW I'LL MATCH UP FIVE COLOURS AS THEY POP UP ON THE SCREEN THAT WILL MAKE ME A ROCK STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!! :rockin: :rockin: :rockin:"

:ohdear: Fuck off, normal.

Quote from: Lexington;1421830Yeah. I'm not "I want to be awesome without having to work I KNOW I'LL MATCH UP FIVE COLOURS AS THEY POP UP ON THE SCREEN THAT WILL MAKE ME A ROCK STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!! :rockin: :rockin: :rockin:"

:ohdear: Fuck off, normal.

haha hit the nail right on the head. The damn PINKS! :mad:

Ooh ooh! How about boybands?
also, money, to name an easy one

Quote from: Frank The Bunny;1421837also, money, to name an easy one

That's ruined music from the day a caveman beating on a rock was given a piece of meat to beat on a different rock that didn't sound as good.

psychedelic music selling out

punk selling out

industrial dieing

We covered the "money" thing, Giant Man. And don't triple-post.

Oh wait, wait, I got a good one!

Nü metal.

specifically it turning into nin kmfdwhatever and the rest

i can post however many times i want

"indie" as a musical genre

lamonte young seizing theatre of eternal music tapes

velvet underground carrying on after cale leaving

riots at luigi russolos performances

wolf eyes

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421861i can post however many times i want

You see that little marker-shaped button at the bottom of your posts?

That's the Edit button. Use that and don't be a dick.

cornelius cardew turning into extreme maoist or cardew getting hit by a car, whichever

Cat Stevens becomes Yusuf Islam

ok snake is actually a nice guy so ill be nice too so:
industrial turning into kmfdwhatever nin ministry etc
"indie" as a genre
wolf eyes

actually replace all of those with the beatles or elvis i cant choose which. also jazz falling into cliches and not progressing (or at least outcasting the ones who did)

Thanks, Giant Man. You're a good guy.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421873"indie" as a genre

"We're too cool and distant to be 'alternative'."

Whatever, man. You just know real alternative rockers would laugh you off the stage. :p

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421879oose which. also jazz falling into cliches and not progressing (or at least outcasting the ones who did)

That's a very astute observation. Good work.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421856psychedelic music selling out

uh, it was a popular fad back in the 60s, and even the bands at the time who just thought of it as a fad still made some great music

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421857punk selling out

that i can agree to, if we're talking about the mindless pop punk/hardcore/emo stuff of today

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421858industrial dieing

i would make a comment, but you seem like one of those touchy types

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421864velvet underground carrying on after cale leaving

dude, their s/t album is like their best one, man (and even with yule it wasn't too bad)

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421879actually replace all of those with the beatles or elvis i cant choose which.

oh god you're one of those fucks, aren't you?

though i will say that elvis is overrated, since he's popular mostly because of his image rather than music

limewire?

man try napster you little shit, the 90's had some great music, william shatner?

Quote from: Lexington;1421880"We're too cool and distant to be 'alternative'."

Whatever, man. You just know real alternative rockers would laugh you off the stage. :p

i dont really understand this. anyway i know its a lame and cliched thing to say but its just dumb how an important stance to have in music just turned into a section in a cd store...

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421889i dont really understand this. anyway i know its a lame and cliched thing to say but its just dumb how an important stance to have in music just turned into a section in a cd store...

Oh, that's what you meant. I thought you meant that "indie" musicians find themselves too pretentious. My bad.

Also, the CD store might go extinct in the face of iTunes. That could be bad, if iTunes is the only place in the world we can go to for our music. :eek:

Quote from: ChimeClock;1421881uh, it was a popular fad back in the 60s, and even the bands at the time who just thought of it as a fad still made some great music

yeah it was a fad and all but what im saying is it started off with some genuine creativeness and groundbreaking stuff but after a while it just became something commercial and fell into cliches and stereotypes (like punk did).

Quote from: ChimeClock;1421881i would make a comment, but you seem like one of those touchy types

haha probably but i like you :)

Quote from: ChimeClock;1421881dude, their s/t album is like their best one, man (and even with yule it wasn't too bad)

yeah ok its pretty good but cale made the velvet underground a hugely experimental band that brought something that popular music hadnt really explored before at all, which was extremely important and extremely influential but without him its pretty much just clever rock music. also they shouldve kept angus maclise as the drummer.

Quote from: ChimeClock;1421882oh god you're one of those fucks, aren't you?

though i will say that elvis is overrated, since he's popular mostly because of his image rather than music

elvis is nothing more then an image created to bring black american music to a white market. the beatles arent as bad but doing things that had been done a billion times before and being praised as being original and innovative is just annoying.

Quote from: Lexington;1421890Also, the CD store might go extinct in the face of iTunes. That could be bad, if iTunes is the only place in the world we can go to for our music. :eek:

aside from rare out of print stuff i might add downloading to my list but i dunno only if it gets to that point. and anyway there are a whole lot of people who exist outside whatever the current fad in distributing music and are still mailing eachother vinyl cassettes cds etc.
cd stores are overpriced anyway

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421894cd stores are overpriced anyway

You're paying for liner notes. :p

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421892elvis is nothing more then an image created to bring black american music to a white market. the beatles arent as bad but doing things that had been done a billion times before and being praised as being original and innovative is just annoying.

hmm, okay then, can you clarify that second statement, because i don't really see what the beatles did to music was already done by the 60s

Quote from: Lexington;1421896You're paying for liner notes. :p

hurr
seriously tho cds here are like $20 and they still dont have things i like most of the time :c

Quote from: ChimeClock;1421899hmm, okay then, can you clarify that second statement, because i don't really see what the beatles did to music was already done by the 60s

well ok the early stuff is based on blues and things i believe but im not like an expert in that field, but all of the experimental techniques they adopted later on had been going on for at least on or two decades before they started using them, in fields of contemporary classical and experimental music and already introduced by zappa and probably others beforehand to popular music.

although actually my reasons are probably nothing compared to more largescale things, like conventional western musical structure disregarding noise as a fundamental element of sound.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1421901well ok the early dingen is based on blues and things i believe but im not like an expert in that field, but all of the experimental techniques they adopted later on had been going on for at least on or two decades before they started using them, in fields of contemporary classical and experimental music and already introduced by zappa and probably others beforehand to popular music.

well, what i would respond to is that it took the beatles to take those experimental techniques, and mix them in traditional forms, and the vise versa. sure, you can say that that would make those techniques less radical, but it did help make aware of the public, in a more popular and accesible way, why those styles/genres were needed and invented in the first place

also, they were the first band to make the "tried on" approach to music, always trying out new genres, new techniques, new styles, etc. aka diversity

Quote from: ChimeClock;1421914well, what i would respond to is that it took the beatles to take those experimental techniques, and mix them in traditional forms, and the vise versa. sure, you can say that that would make those techniques less radical, but it did help make aware of the public, in a more popular and accesible way, why those styles/genres were needed and invented in the first place

also, they were the first band to make the "tried on" approach to music, always trying out new genres, new techniques, new styles, etc.

as i said, zappa already introduced these techniques to popular music.
i am skeptical about this second comment but i do not have anything to back up my disbelief (perhaps zappa again? i am not sure). but in any case the developments in other genres before and at the time dwarf a rock band medaling in abstraction.

well zappa was rather underground at the time, and people would probably considered him too loony to be worthy anyway

Quote from: ChimeClock;1421929well zappa was rather underground at the time, and people at the time would probably considered him too loony to be worthy anyway

well yeah but that doesnt go against my point on the beatles. and i believe they were aware of zappa at the time but im not sure.

the thing about zappa is that he focuses on parody more than music, really. yes, the techniques he used were radical and revolutionary, but they were used mostly on the shocking/novel way than making serious artistic statements. and even on his sound collages, he never really went more than just sound collages. the beatles on the other hand, used those same techniques to make an actual new genre (tomorrow never knows is the most obvious example).
 
i'm not condemning zappa mind you (i like him quite a lot), but i hope this will settle the differences between them

Pop music
That shit is all over the "Urban" radio. It is horrible.

In my opinion, studio-manipulated pop. With this I mean people who can't sing for shit and get their weak voices pumped up with some "special" computer treatment.

EDIT: Even though I don't like pop, I would respect people who actually can sing.

wow all your points are pretty dumb, so ill just pick one to bitch about that other people haven't yet.  Old songs in commercials are great because they introduce a new group of people with a song they never heared before, it often leads to a boost in sales and radio playtime. For instance the Golden Earing become very popular again in Holland after one of their songs was featured in a commercial.

also mainstream sux, mtv ruined the business and punk died.

blabla the worst thing to happen to music is little fags who keep bitching about shitty music instead of enjoying good music.

Quote from: Frank The Bunny;1421804the 90's

howdareu

people seriously talking about music

Quote from: SCSP;1422174people seriously talking about music

They didn't qualify to be philosophy majors, so this is how they get the lead out. :p

Music pirating obviously.

Stupid people liking things I like.

Quote from: Frank The Bunny;1421804Limewire

Get the fuck off my internet!

Stick with Frostwire. :thumbs:

Soulseek > frostwire > limewire

Remember back when every file on limewire wasn't just a popup advertisement?

Quote from: Peggey Hill;1422284Remember back when every file on limewire wasn't just a popup advertisement?

No. That's a myth.

You dudes need to get Limewire Pro and/or set your sercurity settings higher.

Quote from: MonsterFuckingMunchClock;1422294You dudes need to get Limewire Pro and/or set your sercurity settings higher.

That's exactly what I use, and it's still shitty.

Quote from: Peggey Hill;1422275Stupid people liking things I like.

then stop liking stupid things

but yeah you guys whine about stupid shit, how is old songs being in an ad bad at all. and i guess i take a lot of shit too seriously, i read far too much essays :(

Quote from: MonsterMunchClock;1422294You dudes need to get Limewire Pro and/or set your sercurity settings higher.

Limewire Pro = Frostwire.

Pop-rap (like Hurricane Chris and Soulja-fucking-Boy)
Christian _______
Hot Topic
Insane Clown Posse
Myspace
and I would say the Jonas Brothers but Disney was already mentioned.

hell, there's lots of good stuff and bad stuff when it comes to music so really i can't really bother myself when asked questions like these

Quote from: UglyBastard;1422309Insane Clown Posse

:this: But they're easy to ignore, thankfully.

I see so many juggalos on the bus here in tucson.

(early) Beatles
Elvis
Kiss

those three groups are solely responsible for ruining music as an artform, Beatles proved that music didn't matter, as long as there was a market, Elvis proved that sex appeal could sell really well

and Kiss, Gene simmons in particular, proved that music was an industry not an artistic growth


Because of those 3 groups, music is no longer an artform, there are artists in music, but none of them are too popular.

Quote from: Peggey Hill;1422325I see so many juggalos on the bus here in tucson.

Fine, they're easy to ignore where I'm from.

Quote from: Maltese;1422328(early) Beatles
Elvis
Kiss

those three groups are solely responsible for ruining music as an artform, Beatles proved that music didn't matter, as long as there was a market, Elvis proved that sex appeal could sell really well

and Kiss, Gene simmons in particular, proved that music was an industry not an artistic growth


Because of those 3 groups, music is no longer an artform, there are artists in music, but none of them are too popular.

Every other problem in music stemmed from these three bands

Boy bands sprung from the Elvis, Beatles stream, while being supported by corporations following the influence of gene simmons

nu metal bands follow the beatles stream, in that they showed that a market is more important than talent

pussycat dolls and other pop musicians come from elvis and his sex appeal

it's all a combonation of elemental evils.

Quote from: Maltese;1422337Every other problem in music stemmed from these three bands

Boy bands sprung from the Elvis, Beatles stream, while being supported by corporations following the influence of gene simmons

nu metal bands follow the beatles stream, in that they showed that a market is more important than talent

pussycat dolls and other pop musicians come from elvis and his sex appeal

it's all a combonation of elemental evils.

ok i hate these guys too as i said before but this is just I'm a edgy teen

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1422340ok i hate these guys too as i said before but this is just I'm a edgy teen

you can't just look at music as a ideas forming in a vacuum, there's a cultural cause and effect to everything.

Businesses don't have any originality, nor creativity, as music becomes corporate, it means they have to follow established market forces

namely the bland marketability of the beatles, the sex appeal of elvis, and the capitalist forces of kiss.

the beatles proved that if you had marketability, the music doesn't matter
elvis proved that you can become easily marketable just through sex appeal
and kiss proved that marketability was the only thing that mattered in a music industry.

Quote from: Maltese;1422350you can't just look at music as a ideas forming in a vacuum, there's a cultural cause and effect to everything.

uh yeah

Quote from: Maltese;1422350namely the bland marketability of the beatles, the sex appeal of elvis, and the capitalist forces of kiss.

um buddy im pretty sure marketability in music happened before the beatles, elvis didnt invent sex appeal and i dont even know what youre trying to say about kiss because you already said it about the beatles.

and honestly im pretty sure most of the music you listen to is run by these "capitalist forces"

maltese did you actually listen to the early beatles albums
or are you just dismissing them as pop pap? (if you do this, you are way more feeble-minded than i thought you would be)

hey about the commercial thing, I'm all for hearing some beatles or 'stones in an ad, I just don't like the cheap remakes, which are much more common. And, to the effect of the kiss marketability thing, that shit's true. Kiss once covered never gonna give you up. Case closed.

I say Rap. All it is is words while the same beat is in the background for a whole song, generally either about sex, violence, or gloating.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1422354uh yeah

um buddy im pretty sure marketability in music happened before the beatles, elvis didnt invent sex appeal and i dont even know what youre trying to say about kiss because you already said it about the beatles.

and honestly im pretty sure most of the music you listen to is run by these "capitalist forces"

Do you even know who this person is?

The Beatles aren't famous because of their marketability, they're famous because they're music was and is still amazing and groundbreaking in many aspects.

Quote from: Pin Clock;1422410I say Rap. All it is is words while the same beat is in the background for a whole song, generally either about sex, violence, or gloating.

you better be joking

Quote from: Lexington;1422437Do you even know who this person is?

yes, but does this effect my argument in the slightest?

i've already discussed the beatles groundbreaking thing but
whatever.

Also, in my opinion, one of the worst things to happen to music is MTV.
When it first started it out it was awesome.  But as it drifted away from music into whatever the hell it is today, it still managed to drag music down with it, creating I'm a edgy teen people listening to I'm a edgy teen shit doing I'm a edgy teen things as they watch I'm a edgy teen rich kids do I'm a edgy teen things.

I'm also going to have to say techno/shitty electronic shit.  A person with no talent or skill can make a song on the computer and it'll be the next big hit.

as much as i hate bedroom techno, i am all for it. everyone can make music and everyone should.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1422637as much as i hate bedroom techno, i am all for it. everyone can make music and everyone should.

People that suck dick at making music shouldn't

Quote from: Obroxious Groovebag;1422638People that suck dick at making music shouldn't

probably but i dont see anything wrong with the means of creating music being readily available to anyone who wants it, regardless of whatever elitist rules are preventing people expressing themselves.

this

http://clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=80223

Quote from: Pin Clock;1422410I say Rap. All it is is words while the same beat is in the background for a whole song, generally either about sex, violence, or gloating.

hi i'm pinclock i dunno anything about hip-hop

Hey, I can have my opinion like everyone else. Please show me some good songs of the genre, if I so know nothing.

The worse thing to happen to music was when people stopped caring about it, and started caring more about the shit that surrounds it. Judging music by image or what that band may have influenced or whether something had been done before.

an example is the beatles. Just because some of the stuff they did had been done before and just because they influence a lot of bad music, it just doesn't stop them from sounding good. and that's all that matters, whether it sounds good to you or not.

I think when it comes to music, people should solely care about what they think sounds good, and enjoying that music with other people.

elvis and beatles hate up in here, not bad clock crew

Quote from: YoYoClock;1422906stuff

okay i agree with some of this, but there are people who have put a whole lot of effort into music and made some really original works who just get their ideas ripped off and fall off the radar and i dont think you can justify things like that just because it sounds good to some people.

Quote from: Pin Clock;1422874Hey, I can have my opinion like everyone else. Please show me some good songs of the genre, if I so know nothing.

Hi I'm Coal Clock, I know absolutely nothing about rap and hip hop but here you go


[u2]uXAKOfk7_ho[/u2]

[u2]mYZ_RD--Lpg[/u2]

Again, I don't have or listen to a lot of rap and hip hop, but I can appreciate it. Please don't be one of those i-love-everything-but-rap-and-country-lol idiots who pride themselves in their ability to dismiss entire genres of music because it'll give the impression of something resembling taste.

pinclock dont form opinions based on things you have no knowledge of. also aesop rock is pretty shit.

Saul Williams is rap and his music isn't a lame drumbeat repeated over and over again set to overdone lyrics about hoes and drugs.

[u2]l1llNYAlYrc[/u2]

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423101pinclock dont form opinions based on things you have no knowledge of. also aesop rock is pretty shit.

like i said, i have very little rap and hip hop, i haven't been in it deep enough to have a good taste in it

and for a record i would say that a good majority of rap/hip hop is not about hoes and drugs and thug life and shit

Quote from: coalclock;1423109and for a record i would say that a good majority of rap/hip hop is not about hoes and drugs and thug life and shit

Well to be fair, everything on MTV is.

Quote from: Peggey Hill;1423115Well to be fair, everything on MTV is.

and all rock on MTV is linkin park, fallout boy, red jumpsuit apparatus, and panic at the disco

They still play linkin park? I thought nobody liked their new album cause it was slow or something.

Actually the only song off their new album I know to be slower is Shadow of the Day, the rest of it sounds like everything else they've done. Also, they won best band at MTV Music Awards or something.

coal has the right idea but he knows far too much about linkin park

According to one of the iTunes reviews there's only two songs with rapping on them and there's a lot of atmospheric stuff. I'm not gonna go download the album just to confirm this though.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423138coal has the right idea but he knows far too much about linkin park

A lot of people listened to them back in junior high, it's not a big deal.

Good rap songs (I'm just doing three by the same band right now because I don't have my playlist up in front of me).  The third is my favorite of the three.

[u2]CQWoKLoDXao[/u2]

[u2]AZmQIGLNxBs[/u2]

[u2]-UoYiP8Tu0U[/u2]

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423138coal has the right idea but he knows far too much about linkin park

i've heard 2 songs off their new album GET OFF MY FUCKING BACK I TURN ON THE TV SOMETIMES

Quote from: Peggey Hill;1423140A lot of people listened to them back in junior high, it's not a big deal.

yeah, even i used to be a fan of them when i about 10 or so

i don't know much about rap, either; pretty much the only contemporary rap artists that i listen to use samples from other bands/genres that i like

examples:
a tribe called quest
[u2]9z11Dqw7mK0[/u2]
edan
[u2]9cpShqcqptY[/u2]
cannibal ox
[u2]eEyUv-wo-0c[/u2]

not shown here is mf doom, since i don't really have one of his main albums yet

ok, Flounderman's and the last two Topcatyo posted were pretty good.

I apologize for saying all rap is bad and about drugs and hoes, I only said that because whenever my sister drives the car she blasts the stuff (the ones about guns, sex, a desire for material objects like money) and it hurts my ears very badly.

Quote from: Pin Clock;1423294ok, Flounderman's and the last two Topcatyo posted were pretty good.

I apologize for saying all rap is bad and about drugs and hoes, I only said that because whenever my sister drives the car she blasts the dingen (the ones about guns, sex, a desire for material objects like money) and it hurts my ears very badly.

Well, you can be forgiven, I find that a lot of people I know in real life have shit taste in rap.

Quote from: Pin Clock;1423294ok, Flounderman's and the last two Topcatyo posted were pretty good.

I apologize for saying all rap is bad and about drugs and hoes, I only said that because whenever my sister drives the car she blasts the dingen (the ones about guns, sex, a desire for material objects like money) and it hurts my ears very badly.

It's okay, I didn't know good rap existed for years and just assumed it was all MTV style audio diarrhea.

in my opinion, the worst thing that happened has been regeton, If you don't know what genre is or never heard that kind, I envy you

Quote from: Pin Clock;1423294.....I only said that because whenever my sister drives the car she blasts the dingen (the ones about guns, sex, a desire for material objects like money) and it hurts my ears very badly.

My dumb blonde 23 year old sister (who only listens to the top 40 stations) does the same damn thing, especially when Lil Wayne's "Lick me like a lollipop or whatever the hell the title of this shitty song is" or something similar comes on.  Except she also trys to dance while she looks at me and grins at me while mouthing the lyrics, knowing that she's annoying me.  Also, whenever I'm the driving, she'll bitch and moan, and continue to do so if I don't change it to her favorite top 40 pop station because she has this logic that "if the music ISN'T on the top 40 or MTV, the music automatically sucks and the artists who make that music are complete nobodies."

Poprap and teenage girls.

Quote from: Pin Clock;1423294apologize for saying all rap is bad and about drugs and hoes, I only said that because whenever my sister drives the car she blasts the dingen (the ones about guns, sex, a desire for material objects like money) and it hurts my ears very badly.

do you judge rock music by what they play on the radio

butyeah tribe called quest is neat, so is mf doom (beatwise at least, i cant stand his voice. special herbs and spices is great)

Faggot metal that gets played on every 'HARD ROCK' radio station ever and the faggots that think it's badass.

Faggot songs that get into any guitar hero/ddr ripoff which makes people think said bands are fucking amazing though they've never heard any other song by them. Yes, I'm talking to you Muse and Dargonforce.

muse is metal?

but yeah their singer is like today's version of jon anderson

I don't think I said Muse was metal. Think of the space between the statement as an invisible line showing different thoughts.

i misread, thank you

but yeah, but yeah

Quote from: ChimeClock;1422388maltese did you actually listen to the early beatles albums
or are you just dismissing them as pop pap? (if you do this, you are way more feeble-minded than i thought you would be)

of course I listened to the early stuff

Quote from: Hudson;1422442The Beatles aren't famous because of their marketability, they're famous because they're music was and is still amazing and groundbreaking in many aspects.

the beatles only became good when they were already famous, which is also the time they started using LSD, anyway, the entire coolness of the beatles was stolen from Frank Zappa, which I deduced from an interview with John Lennon, where he said he stole the style from Frank Zappa.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1422354um buddy im pretty sure marketability in music happened before the beatles, elvis didnt invent sex appeal and i dont even know what youre trying to say about kiss because you already said it about the beatles.

and honestly im pretty sure most of the music you listen to is run by these "capitalist forces"

there wasn't even an electric guitar until the 1930s, they only became mass marketed in the mid-1940s, and only became popular in the 1950s

the same is with the bass guitar only a decade later

there was also no public image of the musicians, save for live performances, no notoriety, and finally, No TV

the Beatles and Elvis were actually trailblazers


I don't just look at this stuff, I study this shit, I can pinpoint the exact date when music started becoming shit.

Quote from: i'm a homo;1423398Faggot metal that gets played on every 'HARD ROCK' radio station ever and the faggots that think it's badass.

Faggot songs that get into any guitar hero/ddr ripoff which makes people think said bands are fucking amazing though they've never heard any other song by them. Yes, I'm talking to you Muse and Dargonforce.

haha I was literally thinking "dragonforce" while I read that paragraph. God those guys suck. Its like, "gee fellas, that sure is a nice bandname. How'd you come up with it? Hmm?go on runescape and decided that the username of the next level 3 to walk by would be your new band name? What was your name before that? Xxxnaruto_fan12xxX?"

Also, of course the music I listen to is run by capitalist forces, we live in a capitalism, it's unavoidable as long as the musician is going for the goal of money, instead of trying to make art

the fault in the music industry is a lack of artists, and a hideously-bloated excessive amount of businessmen who are trying to make a buck.

Quote from: Maltese;1423449Also, of course the music I listen to is run by capitalist forces, we live in a capitalism, it's unavoidable as long as the musician is going for the goal of money, instead of trying to make art

the fault in the music industry is a lack of artists, and a hideously-bloated excessive amount of businessmen who are trying to make a buck.

a good example of capitalism's dirty hand pulling the strings behind a band is green day. No one goes from Good Riddance to American Idiot because they feel like it

wow

ok um im not even going to try

I revolutionized this bizness like the way it was meant to be done, cause everyday i'm hustleing

Quote from: Frank The Bunny;1423452a good example of capitalism's dirty hand pulling the strings behind a band is green day. No one goes from Good Riddance to American Idiot because they feel like it

green day was always the result of marketable forces, it's the only reason they were popular in the first place, it's the only reason there are popular musicians, no musician is popular because of talent, they're only popular because they can be bought and sold on the free market

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423453wow

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423457ok um im not even going to try

disgusts me too

Quote from: Maltese;1423465disgusts me too

uh youre probably misinterpreting what i meant

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423467uh youre probably misinterpreting what i meant

green day comment?

Green day is not hustleing. They be trippin

Quote from: Maltese;1423470green day comment?

ok well i was shocked at how I'm a edgy teen you guys are being

Quote from: Maltese;1423443the beatles only became good when they were already famous, which is also the time they started using LSD, anyway, the entire coolness of the beatles was stolen from Frank Zappa, which I deduced from an interview with John Lennon, where he said he stole the style from Frank Zappa.

1. in 1965, which i'm pretty sure was a different year an 1966.
2. already explained zappa vs beatles this a few pages back

seriously, either you're one of the dumb fucks who think "commercial/mainstream music = automatically bad" (and that is false believe it or not), or you're just being a troll

Quote from: Maltese;1423443the beatles only became good when they were already famous, which is also the time they started using LSD, anyway, the entire coolness of the beatles was stolen from Frank Zappa, which I deduced from an interview with John Lennon, where he said he stole the style from Frank Zappa.

1. in 1964, which i'm pretty sure was a different year than 1966.
2. already explained zappa vs beatles a few pages back

seriously, I hope you're just being a troll about this

Quote from: Rick Ross;1423485Green day is not hustleing. They be trippin

I like where THIS dimension of the conversation is going :)

Quote from: ChimeClock;14235041. in 1964, which i'm pretty sure was a different year than 1966.
2. already explained zappa vs beatles a few pages back

seriously, I hope you're just being a troll about this

1. elaborate
2. wasn't paying attention.

beatlemania, ring a bell?

and the LSD thing started at 1965 but began surfacing in their music in 1966

Quote from: Maltese;14235081. elaborate

1964 is actually 1966 minus two, so logically, its impossible for the two to be the same number

Quote from: ChimeClock;14235041. in 1964, which i'm pretty sure was a different year than 1966.
2. already explained zappa vs beatles a few pages back

seriously, I hope you're just being a troll about this

Quote from: ChimeClock;1423510beatlemania, ring a bell?

just went back a few pages

beatlemania actually proves my point, Beatles in 1964 was shit, beatlemania was a mass-market clusterfuck

and they were introduced to LSD in mid-1965, Paul McCartney first took it in 1966.


And my point was separate from other ideas you brought up, my point was, that John Lennon himself said that he got the ideas from Frank Zappa; basically, beatles would still be shit if it weren't for that god among men, Frank Zappa.

the beatles were a horrible thing to be put up against music.

okay this seems to be the vibe i'm getting from you:
"commercial/mainstream music = automatically bad"
that is a false and a very lazy way of analyzing music

Quote from: ChimeClock;1423524okay this seems to be the vibe i'm getting from you:
"commercial/mainstream music = automatically bad"
that is a false and a very lazy way of analyzing music

no of course not, commercial and mainstream doesn't infer bad, it is what being commercial and mainstream brings that's bad.

the fault is in that something that is commercial and mainstream does not change anything, does not go against the norm, and doesn't make people think in any shape or form; and how the industry works is with financial incentive towards something more audience friendly

It is, quite simply, not art. People sticking with what is safe and acceptable because they they look at the financial goal, instead of the artistic goal. Music is supposed to be an artform, and because of Beatles, Elvis, and Gene Simmons, they ruined it.

Being Commercial and Mainstream, and being Crap, have a common cause; money, when money was introduced as the main goal of musicians, it fell into a slump of uncreative shit.

Quote from: Maltese;1423530It is, quite simply, not art.

well what do you refer to as art, then?

Quote from: ChimeClock;1423533well what do you refer to as art, then?

a piece intended to incite thought and contemplation; art also has the nasty habit of being able to be analysed over and over again with differing interpretations and requires creativity from both the artist and the viewer to understand; as well as it has any sort of cultural impact, significant or not, but either way, memorable.

The Beatles only really became artists when they were trying to be the mothers of invention

okay zappa is pretty original for introducing experimental to popular music and the beatles are pretty lame for being pretty derivative but man he's not a god. also it might be worthy to note zappa was a self declared capitalist.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423537okay zappa is pretty original for introducing experimental to popular music and the beatles are pretty lame for being pretty derivative but man he's not a god. also it might be worthy to note zappa was a self declared capitalist.

He was a capitalist, and he was an artist.

and I'm using the term god in hyperbole.

classical artists didn't create just because they felt like it, they were paid for it, that was their goal, to create art for money. The problem is the corruption of the goal, with music, it is not to create art for money anymore, it is to create anything that anyone would buy, for money, there is no prerequisite for art, and, art doesn't sell very well comparatively.

Quote from: Maltese;1423534a piece intended to incite thought and contemplation

wrong

Quote from: Maltese;1423538He was a capitalist, and he was an artist.

youre not even making any sense anymore

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423540wrong

I'd say it fits, writing can be art, music, film, paintings, sculpture, etc. seems to fit for all of them.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423541youre not even making any sense anymore

I'm making perfect sense

read the rest of the post

zappa wasn't just a capitalist only trying to make money

he was an artist and a capitalist, he was making art, for money.

Quote from: Maltese;1423542I'd say it fits, writing can be art, music, film, paintings, sculpture, etc. seems to fit for all of them.

um no quite a lot of works of art are simply just art. something can be poetic, beautiful and artistic without thought provocation.

Quote from: Maltese;1423534a piece intended to incite thought and contemplation; art also has the nasty habit of being able to be analysed over and over again with differing interpretations and requires creativity from both the artist and the viewer to understand; as well as it has any sort of cultural impact, significant or not, but either way, memorable.

The Beatles only really became artists when they were trying to be the mothers of invention

hmm, i think you're setting your music philosophy a bit too high here

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423543um no quite a lot of works of art are simply just art. something can be poetic, mooi and artistic without thought provocation.

give me an example

you know what, it actually doesn't matter if you give me an example or not, because any example would incite thought, there is a process of understanding.

Quote from: ChimeClock;1423544hmm, i think you're setting your music philosophy a bit too high here

I'm just not willing to settle for shit

Quote from: Maltese;1423542he was an artist and a capitalist, he was making art, for money.

look it goes without saying that making music for the sole purpose of making money is dumb and has already been discussed but believe it or not most people are not like this!

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423546look it goes without saying that making music for the sole purpose of making money is dumb and has already been discussed but believe it or not most people are not like this!

no, I think there's a lot of popular musicians out there that think they're creating art, but are actually very uncreative and have been hired for that main attribute.

Quote from: Maltese;1423545give me an example

but there is a million things i could post. pretty much every major artwork of the past billion years aside from conceptual works, such as maybe a few dadaist and related pieces.

Quote from: Maltese;1423547no, I think there's a lot of popular musicians out there that think they're creating art, but are actually very uncreative and have been hired for that main attribute.

if they are not aware of what proceeded them (which you are implying as you believe that they think they are creating art) and have come upon these ideas themselves then they are being creative.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423548but there is a million things i could post. pretty much every major artwork of the past billion years aside from conceptual works, such as maybe a few dadaist and related pieces.

Dada's entire purpose was to incite thought! to reject traditional ideals of art!

every major artwork does have meaning, and it causes people to think, it incites thought; whether or not it's intentional is a different matter but it doesn't change whether or not it's art.

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423549if they are not aware of what proceeded them (which you are implying as you believe that they think they are creating art) and have come upon these ideas themselves then they are being creative.

fine, I'll put it another way.

I think there's a lot of people that think they are creating art, but in fact, they are very stupid, and only follow the mainstream

well originality/creativity is not the only thing to analyze whiling listening, isn't it

Quote from: ChimeClock;1423551well originality/creativity is not the only thing to analyze whiling listening, isn't it

of course not, he'll that's not even what I'm analysing, although there is overlap

what I'm looking for is artistic quality, meaning, significance; which, in an artform, is the only thing to look for.

I say art is anything you can put an expressive and creative spin on. Anything can be art if you do it that way

Quote from: Maltese;1423550Dada's entire purpose was to incite thought! to reject traditional ideals of art!

dadas point was to protest the absurdity of the current war.
and in any case, if you understood, say, duchamps works you would not be making this argument.

Quote from: Maltese;1423550I think there's a lot of people that think they are creating art, but in fact, they are very stupid, and only follow the mainstream

wait a second, what do you listen to again

Quote from: Frank The Bunny;1423554Anything can be art

fixed

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423555dadas point was to protest the absurdity of the current war.
and in any case, if you understood, say, duchamps works you would not be making this argument.


wait a second, what do you listen to again

Dada did a lot of things, and to be honest, only marcel duchamp fully understands marcel duchamp's works


I never did say what I listened to, did I

Frank Zappa, Art of Noise, Buckethead, Primus, (and all derivatives of buckethead and primus), David Bowie, Jimi Hendrix, Parliament Funkadelic, Haydn, Mozart, Vivaldi, Wagner, Paul Gilbert, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Rush

and 1966-Onward Beatles

and Max Webster, and Nash the Slash

Quote from: Maltese;1423558only marcel duchamp fully understands marcel duchamp's works

quite possibly so but the point of his thought provoking works (yes i admit they are intended to be thought provoking) is to show that anything can be art. putting a urinal on a pedestal does not suddenly elevate its status to art, it was art in the first place. cages 4'33' did the same thing to sound.

Quote from: Maltese;1423558Frank Zappa

also my whole point of zappa was that he is only original in appropriating early avantegarde techniques into popular music. the techniques are still derivative of avantegarde music, but does this change their quality?
and i do not understand how any other one of these artists is original or significant.

to paraphrase, every sound and image is art, the quality of which is subjective based on whatever emotional response these images or sounds give you. that is how music should be judged. sure an artwork may be significant, but what is the point of significance if the work does not appeal to you, or its significance inspires you or other people to create things you do enjoy.

Milkshake

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423559quite possibly so but the point of his thought provoking works (yes i admit they are intended to be thought provoking) is to show that anything can be art. putting a urinal on a pedestal does not suddenly elevate its status to art, it was art in the first place. cages 4'33' did the same thing to sound.


also my whole point of zappa was that he is only original in appropriating early avantegarde techniques into popular music. the techniques are still derivative of avantegarde music, but does this change their quality?
and i do not understand how any other one of these artists is original or significant.

Everything is derivative, no ideas can form in a vacuum, it's the use of derivations that's important.


Jimi Hendrix will be remembered long after I die for elevating guitar to a higher status in a band

The Beatles will probably never be forgotten.

Frank Zappa was a brilliant composer who, in my opinion, is not appreciated enough

Art of Noise did amazing work with early studio processing technology, merging traditional instrument sounds with samples of their own music and outside sources into a cohesive form.

Buckethead is an awesome avant-garde guitarist who isn't as popular as he should be

Primus is a fantastic band headed by Les Claypool, arguably one of the greatest bassists ever, and they make fantastic music, which isn't as popular as it should be

David Bowie, do I really need to say?

Parliament Funkadelic, they're highly influencial musicians, who aren't appreciated enough

Haydn is a traditional composer, made very high tempo compositions
same with Vivaldi

Haydn would be nothing without Mozart

Wagner was a german composer, considered by Nietzsche to be the ubermensch

Paul Gilbert, brilliant guitarist, was the teacher of buckethead

Red hot chili peppers, great funk band, and as guitarist john frusciante has said, music is not about technical abilities, it's about emotional content.

Rush is the definitive canadian band, rush will never be forgotten in canada

Max Webster is a brilliant canadian band, who made very strange music

and Nash the Slash is a canadian violin player and mandolin player who creates amazing orchestral compositions with modern technology, like fuzz pedals and analogue loopers

Quote from: giant_man_elsavier;1423560to paraphrase, every sound and image is art, the quality of which is subjective based on whatever emotional response these images or sounds give you. that is how music should be judged. sure an artwork may be significant, but what is the point of significance if the work does not appeal to you, or its significance inspires you or other people to create things you do enjoy.

I agree.

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Everything is derivative, no ideas can form in a vacuum, it's the use of derivations that's important.

but man your whole fucking argument was against derision. what are you saying? they deride from the wrong people?

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Jimi Hendrix will be remembered long after I die for elevating guitar to a higher status in a band

the guitar was in a pretty high status in a band before hendrix

Quote from: Maltese;1423563The Beatles will probably never be forgotten.

personally i think they're rubbish

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Frank Zappa was a brilliant composer who, in my opinion, is not appreciated enough

i think he is

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Art of Noise did amazing work with early studio processing technology, merging traditional instrument sounds with samples of their own music and outside sources into a cohesive form.

ever heard of musique concrete?

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Buckethead is an awesome avant-garde guitarist who isn't as popular as he should be

he's overrated and you're using avantegarde pretty loosely

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Primus is a fantastic band headed by Les Claypool, arguably one of the greatest bassists ever, and they make fantastic music, which isn't as popular as it should be

you know this would work if all the bands werent actually famous

Quote from: Maltese;1423563David Bowie, do I really need to say?

yes

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Parliament Funkadelic, they're highly influencial musicians, who aren't appreciated enough

yeah okay i dig these guys and all but youre really getting annoying

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Haydn is a traditional composer, made very high tempo compositions
same with Vivaldi

changing the tempo of a pretty flawed musical system isnt that big of a development

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Red hot chili peppers, great funk band, and as guitarist john frusciante has said, music is not about technical abilities, it's about emotional content.

rhcp are pretty much a gang of four tribute band

Quote from: Maltese;1423563Rush is the definitive canadian band, rush will never be forgotten in canada

wanky shit

Quote from: Maltese;1423563and Nash the Slash is a canadian violin player and mandolin player who creates amazing orchestral compositions with modern technology, like fuzz pedals and analogue loopers

you know like a billion people do this right

and also what is your argument anymore anyway

ugh

to rekindle the argument, if anything, commercialism and artistic creativity almost always go along with each other

Overanalyzing that what doesn't matter.

Quote from: GreyClock;1423576Overanalyzing that what doesn't matter.

yeah i know but this is just the tip of an iceburg, there is a whole world of overanalyzing of music out there

And to rekindle another argument, the Beatles' (and some other great bands at the time) art did have Zappa's ideology (introducing new sound techniques to popular music, etc.), but unlike Zappa, whose art only were directed to a certain day's needs and nothing else, they added to it some real artistic creativity without looking back at obsolete patterns they needed to replace. They just worked on and created real, truly independent and timeless art.

Quote from: GreyClock;1423576Overanalyzing that what doesn't matter.

word.
I've created a monster.

Quote from: BillardBall3Clock;1423331in my opinion, the worst thing that happened has been regeton, If you don't know what genre is or never heard that kind, I envy you

1. You're dismissing an entire genre

2. Who the fuck doesn't.

Seriously this was supppsed to be more of a "yeah, fuck that guy/band/genre/whatever" but instead it's more of a "NO NO NO YOURE WRONG" kind of thread

oh no

Quote from: coalclock;1424119oh no

that's right.

I'd say DRM and Payola are both in the top 5.

People who hate the beatles or dismiss genres as shit sure don't help progression of music

the fact that they havnt brought back 80's speed metal

also primus is famous as hell whoever said otherwise is an idiot

Quote from: billiardball 11;1424602People who hate the beatles or dismiss genres as shit sure don't help progression of music

People hate The Beatles?

Quote from: Mr.Satan;1426022People hate The Beatles?

If you can still call them people

Quote from: Mr.Satan;1426022People hate The Beatles?

its a musical stage for those who think they are musically obscure and unique

Quote from: Mr.Satan;1426022People hate The Beatles?

its a musical stage for those who think they are musically obscure and unique

Disney
scream-o (God DAMN i hate this fucking piece of shit, It's not even a genre)
Milli vanilli
Rock Band
Atreyu <- FUCK atreyu. ITS NOT FUCKING MUSIC





Music died for me in the 2000's with screamo and fucking idiot kids who think THEY invented emo, but they've never heard of jimmy eat world. You know?

"Emo means emotive hardcore" or whatever some fat emo said to me one day, I had to laugh. EMO means EMOTIONAL music, or EMOTIONAL punk rock. and to say that it was invented in the past 8 years? wtf, ever heard of the blues? Emo was Revolutionized in the 2000's. Its the North Korea of music.

Save Music! Listen to Ratt!

I wouldn't say I hate the beatles, I just don't need to hear it again.