Clock Crew

The ClockCrew Charter

The ClockCrew charter is basically a constitution that will bring in the new administrative structure. I'm posting this on the new policy forum in order to get your feedback and have a public review before all the members on this site are able to vote it in.

There are two parts to the charter: The first is the general constitution of the ClockCrew site, which describes how elections and staffing works. The second is the actual process of clockification, in which new members to the ClockCrew site become clocks.

We are still in the process of coming to an agreement on the Clockification process, but have made progress - I will add a thread in this forum shortly.

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CLOCK CREW CHARTER, REVISION II.

I. Administrators.

This is a group of four members, split into two: One half consists of head developers who will lead the community in development-related endeavours, while the other half consists of head artists of sorts who will lead the community in activity-related endeavours (crew holidays, publicity stunts, collaborations, weekly activities like the Academy). The two halves should interact frequently, working together as a group.

These four slots are selected by the people, for the people. Those who want the spot the most probably deserve it the least, so no active campaigning is allowed for any position on the site.

Administrators are there to serve the people, they are not there to enforce the rules they deem appropriate. Only in exceptional circumstances can an administrator overrule or enforce a ClockCrew Site rule. The Admins shall not coerce the supermoderators to enforce rules for them.

II. Supermoderators.

This group consists of 5 people voted in by the general user base as well.
They are, first and foremost, aids to the administrators. They gather the group, get ready the necessary preparations for projects, and keep a watchful eye over the development of group members.

Only second are they enforcers of rules. They make sure the group doesn't fall apart by taking the necessary decisions based on the moderators ban guide. If they fail to adhere to the rules of the ban guide, they will be removed by administrative staff vote (meaning all admins and the rest of the smods, votes counted equally)

Supermoderators are not there to enforce their own rules. If something isn't found in the rule book, they should send the user off with a warning and appeal to the grid for a rulebook amendment. That is that. Supermoderators shouldn't care whether or not the forum rules suit their world view. If the rules are too lenient in their opinion, then they're fresh out of luck: they are here to serve, not to rule.

III. Moderators.

Voted in by the staff (admins + smods), they take care of moderating specific forums. There should probably be one mod to every forum, but there can be one for two if two such forums are not exactly important. In essence, moderators make sure the appropriate discussion takes place in the appropriate forum. Moderators shall have the ability to enact forum-specific bans, but not site-wide bans.

IV. Transparency.

The Admins, Mods and Supermods shall communicate in a secret forum called ââ,¬Å"The Gridââ,¬Â, and for every policy-related thread made in the grid, a similar thread should be made in the public policy forum within 1 week of the original post OR preferably the thread should be moved or started in the public forum. All aspects of the operation of the site from a policy and technical standpoint should be open to timely public discussion and dissemination.

V. Policy Creation.

The formation of new policies for the Site and the ClockCrew should follow this procedure:
1. Propose the policy in the Grid and discuss the viability thereof amongst the staff.
2. No later than 2 weeks, move the discussion to the Policy forum to get public feedback. If the policy is well-received, proceed to step 3:
3. Propose the implementation of the policy considering the public and staff feedback, implement.

VI. Elections - When and how

The ClockCrew shall hold an election day on September 11th of every year, so that nobody forgets. Absentee ballots will be accepted for up to a week prior to election day. The ballot results will be made public the following day and changes enacted no later than September 17th.

There shall be an Election Coordinator - a supermod volunteer approved by staff vote. This Election Coordinator shall accept candidacy requests for positions on the ballot beginning the previous Clock Day. Each candidacy request should be accompanied by sponsors, a minimum of five sponsors is needed. The Election Coordinator shall provide a complete ballot for programming no later than September 10th.

Any site member who is not perma-banned and has been an active member for over three months may be a candidate or sponsor a candidate. Incumbents are automatically placed on the ballot for the same position, unless they opt-out.

Certain positions are appointed by the staff, such as Treasurer, Election Coordinator and other site jobs, (examples: chat moderators, clockcrew archivist, wiki moderator, etc)

VII. Elections - Initiatives.

Initiatives may be submitted to the Election Coordinator to appear on the ballot. To be added, the initiative must been openly proposed and discussed in the Initiatives sub-forum of the Policy forum using the polling feature, with over 55% approval and at least 20 voters, and been open for polling for more than 3 weeks. If there are a large number of initiatives mid-year, a special election may occur.

Initiatives may modify the ClockCrew charter and/or clockification policy, including the removal of any staff position.

VIII. Amending.

The ClockCrew Charter, ClockCrew Clockification Policy and the ClockCrew site rules can only be amended in the events:
1) that an initiative has passed.
2) by a 75% majority vote by the staff.
In each of these events, a notification must be posted to the policy forum with the new changes.

Quote from: PineappleClock;1837846September 11th of every year, so that nobody forgets.

:golfclap:

We're still not releasing the secret charter though. Just know that it is binding.

I like how it's democratic and maybe a little bureaucratic and all, but I feel the head developer positions need a different approach. Maybe allow an application for them? Where you demonstrate your capabilities as a programmer and maybe talk about what you actually want to develop? Or will the projects developers work on also be voted on in some way by the community? Also it's pretty much going to be Pineapple + extra anyway right? Or are you planning on passing the torch?

Why only five super-moderators? I like separation of power as much as the next guy but let's face it, this isn't exactly a sprawling community, with most of the activity concentrating in General doesn't it make more sense to have more super-moderators to all-round it instead of assigning a bunch of moderators to keep an eye on single forums that get maybe a thread a day at best? But I guess it also depends on the rules in that guide you talked about, which I suspect we'll see soon no?

Quote from: GreyClock;1837917Why only five super-moderators? I like separation of power as much as the next guy but let's face it, this isn't exactly a sprawling community, with most of the activity concentrating in General doesn't it make more sense to have more super-moderators to all-round it instead of assigning a bunch of moderators to keep an eye on single forums that get maybe a thread a day at best? But I guess it also depends on the rules in that guide you talked about, which I suspect we'll see soon no?

Remember that enforcing rules is only a part of what a supermod is about (at least that what addendum II states) in that, even though it's their duty to enforce (maybe not the best word to use) rules, it's not all there is to it.

I think it's nice to have the number of supermods we have now, five is a bit too little. This way there's always a few supermods online.

Quote from: Flounderpa;1837949Remember that enforcing rules is only a part of what a supermod is about (at least that what addendum II states) in that, even though it's their duty to enforce (maybe not the best word to use) rules, it's not all there is to it.

Yeah, those mentoring duties seem like all the more reason to have more of them.

Quote from: GreyClock;1837917Also it's pretty much going to be Pineapple + extra anyway right? Or are you planning on passing the torch?

Piney plans to put his name in for a vote, equal to all other candidates. If the community doesn't vote him back in, then he will gladly hand over the keys. The point isn't to give the illusion of democracy. The point is to observe it to the best of our abilities.

If people vote piney out of office then democracy has failed us.

Quote from: FLOUNDERINYOBUTT;1837971If people vote piney out of office then democracy has failed us.

p much

Quote from: clockradioclock;1837964Piney plans to put his name in for a vote, equal to all other candidates. If the community doesn't vote him back in, then he will gladly hand over the keys. The point isn't to give the illusion of democracy. The point is to observe it to the best of our abilities.

That's noble and all, but what I meant was that he's a shoo-in. Anyway, isn't it wise, keeping the recent Bastille thing in mind, to have someone PineappleClock in a permanent position with the power to send administrators off in case it all goes horribly wrong? The protector of the realm. Now this is an exaggeration but: oh GreyClock is the new administrator! Well here's the root password have fun. First order of business: fuck this charter, oligarchy 2.0. Clock Crew: whoops.

Quote from: GreyClock;1837992That's noble and all, but what I meant was that he's a shoo-in. Anyway, isn't it wise, keeping the recent Bastille thing in mind, to have someone PineappleClock in a permanent position with the power to send administrators off in case it all goes horribly wrong? The protector of the realm. Now this is an exaggeration but: oh GreyClock is the new administrator! Well here's the root password have fun. First order of business: fuck this charter, oligarchy 2.0. Clock Crew: whoops.

I suppose Pineapple's charter modestly takes into account and welcomes the eventuality that it should be its own undoing..

Quote from: GreyClock;1837992That's noble and all, but what I meant was that he's a shoo-in. Anyway, isn't it wise, keeping the recent Bastille thing in mind, to have someone PineappleClock in a permanent position with the power to send administrators off in case it all goes horribly wrong? The protector of the realm. Now this is an exaggeration but: oh GreyClock is the new administrator! Well here's the root password have fun. First order of business: fuck this charter, oligarchy 2.0. Clock Crew: whoops.

well said, the freedome to vote whoeever you want for leader of the clock-crew, could as well, leavve us unprotected, to any merciless mod, like triangle, or bit. what we need is, to keep pinneapple on power, and have a few back-ups, but only by people who have been judged as helpfull/safe/usefull for the clock-crew, by good people, like zombie-lincoln, renegade, leek, and/or pop-tart, blob, or corpsegrinder/ribs, who has showed true potential in the past in his mod duties.(only bad, the fact that he wants to ban anyone who belongs to locklegion, but ok).in short, we need trustfull people for forum leaders, and people who we can trust. so, we shall vote, but with some limitations/or a way to remove the power from an admin who proves to be not-worthy, after a short time.(or if he proves to be more harm than good, in the first place?)

ps. grey clock would be a great moderator, just saying.

Quote from: LeekClock;1837997I suppose Pineapple's charter modestly takes into account and welcomes the eventuality that it should be its own undoing..

well, yes. but the voting once a year, may be TOO long for ppl to wait, it should be each 5 months, or something, so we can monitor the process/admin in power more carefully, and see who we need to change.

BTW, leek?! your back?! man i missed you!
woohoo! glad to see that filthy cadillac clock hasn't kept you out of the clock-crew!you are so good, man!
did u do any flash?

Quote from: LeekClock;1837997I suppose Pineapple's charter modestly takes into account and welcomes the eventuality that it should be its own undoing..

Why risk that? I mean in our ten year run we've proven again and again that the honor system simply does not work on the internet. At some point someone will freak out/delete the database/go on a banning spree/usurp power/steal money. It seems silly to me not to safeguard against something we know will happen eventually, only because we want more than just the illusion of democracy. We shouldn't forget this is the internet where a charter means nothing because of the simple fact that it can be deleted with two clicks of the mouse.

Also hi pal.

Hi!

Your idea of safeguarding the system assumes that we (i.e. we who believe in the initial charter) can trust ourselves. But we too can be corrupted, GreyClock! Perhaps that is the rationale behind it.

Quote from: LeekClock;1838017Hi!

Your idea of safeguarding the system assumes that we (i.e. we who believe in the initial charter) can trust ourselves. But we too can be corrupted, GreyClock! Perhaps that is the rationale behind it.

No my safeguard assumes that we can trust PineappleClock.

Quote from: GreyClock;1838018No my safeguard assumes that we can trust PineappleClock.

Pineapple's virtues of honesty and modesty and intelligence are part of the reason why we trust him, and the charter he has drawn up reflects these virtues, in that he is trying to create a system that outlives himself and does not make him King of the Clock Crew.. (I RECKON)

Well, finally we've got a nice little charter (and a well written one at that) to base actions regarding the site on.  HOPEFULLY this will prevent things from going horribly wrong (for a while at least)  but i feel that inevitably someone is going to make a grab for power (as that is what always happens) and and we will be back at stage one.  Anyway I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say, but I think it's somewhere along the lines of:

Good work on this, and let's hope everything progresses in accordance with this new charter.

Quote from: LeekClock;1838021Pineapple's virtues of honesty and modesty and intelligence are part of the reason why we trust him, and the charter he has drawn up reflects these virtues, in that he is trying to create a system that outlives himself and does not make him King of the Clock Crew.. (I RECKON)

That's admirable but a system like this can not endure on the internet, there are no consequences for breaking it, no value attached to it. My suggestion would not make him Clock King but simply our conscience or whatever, I can't really think of a good example from anything.

Quote from: LeekClock;1838021Pineapple's virtues of honesty and modesty and intelligence are part of the reason why we trust him, and the charter he has drawn up reflects these virtues, in that he is trying to create a system that outlives himself and does not make him King of the Clock Crew.. (I RECKON)

lol I wrote the contents of the OP in The Grid as a suggestion for our future and it seems to have stuck. Now we're running it by everyone else to get their feedback on it too.

In the original draft, I implied that Piney remain a permanent part of the team but he suggested otherwise--probably trusting that the Clock Crew would know who the right people were for the job.

it seems like a yearly election could make things stale if a defunct/idle staff is elected. perhaps they should be more often, per say, bi-annually?

Quote from: clockradioclock;1838032lol I wrote the contents of the OP in The  Grid as a suggestion for our future and it seems to have stuck. Now  we're running it by everyone else to get their feedback on it too.

In the original draft, I implied that Piney remain a permanent part of  the team but he suggested otherwise--probably trusting that the Clock  Crew would know who the right people were for the job.

So what you're saying is... you are pineapple clock!?

Quote from: LeekClock;1838036So what you're saying is... you are pineapple clock!?

I AM PINEAPPLE_CLOCK HAHAHAHA

no wait... :dork:

Yeah, the majority of the charter proposal is ClockRadioClock's, and a lot of the supermods agreed with it, so credit there - my original proposal had a more bureaucratic leaning, and had one "sysop" that was appointed to delegate authority down to supermoderators and mods, and the sysop could only be removed through the initiative process with a 75% quorum. I'm open to either way, I think we need to run this organization a little more like a school club and less like a government, but maybe I am just being naïve.

The charter is just a proposal right now and if we don't like it we can run some polls to get the opinion on some of the key facets - do we have a installed-for-life superadmin? is he or she voted in, and can he or she be kicked out by initiative? If so, what majority needs to agree? How hard is it to change the charter if we need to?

Listening to Grey's concerns, I could propose an alternate form of the charter heirarchy: Keep me on as "super-admin" in a permanent position, but revoke all powers of a super-admin (can't ban anyone, etc) - the only power I would have is to enforce any initiatives that successfully remove any of the four admins or five supermoderators. That way we have a "decorative" head-of-state, with only one real authority, to enforce the will of the people if need be.

Good discussion so far!

Quote from: PineappleClock;1838065Listening to Grey's concerns, I could propose an alternate form of the charter heirarchy: Keep me on as "super-admin" in a permanent position, but revoke all powers of a super-admin (can't ban anyone, etc) - the only power I would have is to enforce any initiatives that successfully remove any of the four admins or five supermoderators. That way we have a "decorative" head-of-state, with only one real authority, to enforce the will of the people if need be.

This seems like the best course of action for the new system. I'd like to hear what others think too.

I fully agree with the whole piney as super-admin idea.  It only makes sense to have someone at the very top who can remove others from their position should the need arise.  Now, down to business, how can we keep piney from going mad with power?  Nah I'm kidding.  I trust piney.

Why don't we just have this super admin be.... Wade Fulp? He's already done exactly what you want the Super Admin to do once. I mean, if we end up with another situation where we have an administration team the forum users really don't like and no way to boot them, we can just ask Wade to change admins for us again.

Quote from: Thor;1838085Why don't we just have this super admin be.... Wade Fulp? He's already done exactly what you want the Super Admin to do once. I mean, if we end up with another situation where we have an administration team the forum users really don't like and no way to boot them, we can just ask Wade to change admins for us again.

I don't think Wade is in touch enough with the day to day activities of the CC to make an informed decision on who the next admin team should be, if it came down to that.

I'm in favor of letting Piney become a super admin, but I think there needs to be a contingency plan for his exit, whether it be voluntary or due to catastrophic circumstance. My suggestion would be that whoever is in the super admin position pick a successor, and that successor has to be one of the current admins. This way the next super admin is both elected by the crew and selected by our most trusted member. The super admin would submit the name of their successor to the Fulps and not disclose the name to anyone else, even the nominated successor.

So we're making a constitutional monarchy with PineappleClock as our king then? Or perhaps more accurately our Caesar.


edit: Edited this post a lot of times. So many times

So all I have to do is get everyone to vote for me to become super admin and I'll become the next king of the Clockcrew.

Quote from: Trixie;1838035it seems like a yearly election could make things stale if a defunct/idle staff is elected. perhaps they should be more often, per say, bi-annually?

To remedy this, I think the userbase should be able to call an early election day, if, say, 75% of people agree it is so. Maybe more.

That way it won't get called every time there's a disagreement, but if there is a serious consensus like in the previous administration, it'd be easy to call an early election day

PineappleClock for Ayatollah.

Real talk though, I think we should put a vote in to give Pineapple a permanent position.

That way we can permaban anyone who opposes.

I definitely feel that Piney should stay on as a perma-admin. He's like the Clock Crew's anchor or glue or whatever.

Quote from: PineappleClock;1838065Listening to Grey's concerns, I could propose an alternate form of the charter heirarchy: Keep me on as "super-admin" in a permanent position, but revoke all powers of a super-admin (can't ban anyone, etc) - the only power I would have is to enforce any initiatives that successfully remove any of the four admins or five supermoderators. That way we have a "decorative" head-of-state, with only one real authority, to enforce the will of the people if need be.

Ideally yes, but I'm not sure how that would work with your very likely election as a developer? Or did you only mean the purely administrative powers like indeed banning, gassing, locking and whatever? Maybe we're overthinking it. I mean how many people have you actually banned in the past?

Quote from: GreyClock;1838228Ideally yes, but I'm not sure how that would work with your very likely election as a developer? Or did you only mean the purely administrative powers like indeed banning, gassing, locking and whatever? Maybe we're overthinking it. I mean how many people have you actually banned in the past?

Probably only a handful and that was when there was no other mods / admins on at the time, or someone was hacking or had hacked the site.

If there is any objection I propose a ballot question making Piney the head admin for life. That's just a security check that's always been there when shit's hit the fan quite a few times when it's really counted. And anyone who thinks otherwise can go have sex with a jar of yogurt.

(https://clockcrew.net/talk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.myfrogbag.com%2Fsroakw%2FStaffForLife.png&hash=a03a50e98fb1e9f3375ad79e36c7c94fa2e8cd1c)

Also if you'd like to have sex with a jar and agree that Piney should be on staff forever I won't judge you.

Quote from: GETANABSINTHEINYOBUTT;1838482Also if you'd like to have sex with a jar and agree that Piney should be on staff forever I won't judge you.

okay phew

There should be a dutch staff member at all times, it has always been like this too and there's a plethora to choose from.

Zwarte piet is spanish

Quote from: AbsintheClock;1838482If there is any objection I propose a ballot question making Piney the head admin for life. That's just a security check that's always been there when shit's hit the fan quite a few times when it's really counted. And anyone who thinks otherwise can go have sex with a jar of yogurt.

OK, i've created a poll in the initiatives group with a timespan of 7 days, after 7 days we'll revise the charter with all of the suggestions here and the superadmin position if it's approved, then put it up for ballot. Hopefully we'll have enough time to do an election after this.


I want to apologize for the apparent hubris that creating a poll to superadmin myself for life apparently displays, but we need to get the public OK before we put such a huge clause in our charter.

I am of the opinion that there should be 2-3 admins (not including the super admin, pineappleclock) and we should have more than 5 smods. Maybe 7 or so.

Quote from: EnglishClock;1841604I am of the opinion that there should be 2-3 admins (not including the super admin, pineappleclock) and we should have more than 5 smods. Maybe 7 or so.

I agree with 2-3 admins, but I think 5 smods are fine for our current userbase.

This thread is locked, please reference the revision 3 in this forum and comment there if you would like.