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religulous

Farted by HeinekenClock, August 04, 2008, 10:17:03 AM

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BinaryClock

I don't like religion but it just seems like he's being a smug dick.
BinaryClock, if you wanna play uno type !unohelp to see how to

Marlin Clock

Quote from: Balsac the Jaws of Death;1376765There is no supermassive homogeneous religious/political organization that refers to itself as "The Church". Typically this hype is created by smaller independent churches that try to get it banned within their heavily insulated communities. Most large religious organizations really wouldn't give two shits about Bill Maher making some shitty psuedodocumentary about his views on an irrevocable cultural force.
We Catholics like to call ourselves The Church. We are the Original Church.

But you're right, it's not like all of us would go at arms to boycott his crappy film.

Also seeing that preview I don't even see how Anti-theists could stand that kind of douchebaggery.

Ti-83Clock

Quote from: BinaryClock;1376883I don't like religion but it just seems like he's being a smug dick.
.

that was pretty sickening to watch
the message that i got from this was a mockery of the ignorant
its not helping them out of ignorance... its comedy
yes, it may have some insightful thoughts, but i doubt even Nietzsche acted like an asshole.

i guess thats the way it has to be though :/.  New thoughts just must be communicated through comedy.  Kind of sad that humanity can only be drawn to new insightful topics only if its accompanied by humor.

i just dont see why people cant understand that sometimes believing in something more helps a person.  

Although I dont like the way its being presented... i like that its being presented.  People do need to see that religion is much more.  They arent just rituals that need to be done and over with, like a checklist to get into heaven.  On the other hand, atheist must understand religion before becoming an atheist.  To me, most atheist just look at the "no religion" as a freedom from the rituals, an easy way out, and not an intense study and rejection of religions.  Just a note on a tired old quote, "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him."  The man who said this was studying to become a priest.

bleh >_>
all in all i'll probably see this film since it might be quite insightful

RomanClock

Quote from: Ti-83Clock;1376895that was pretty sickening to watch
.............
all in all i'll probably see this film since it might be quite insightful

Paradox? :confused:
lemayo lol :soups:

FluxCapacitorClock

It's not even funny. It'd be excusable if it was remotely entertaining, but even his humor is idiotic. It's really just complete mockery, and it's people like him that make it harder to say you're an atheist without being looked at as an asshole.

Also the classic "let's stick a dumb Bush quote in, can't make a documentary without at least one dumb Bush quote" method. We've been beating the "lolz bush cant talk" horse for 8 years now. Enough is enough.

Ti-83Clock

Quote from: RomanClock;1376899Paradox? :confused:

not quite
it can be sickening (the comedy and mockery of the ignorant), but insightful (the ageless questions of god)

HeinekenClock

Guise calm downe.


I just posted this because I thought it was a hilarious trailer, that part with george bush was amazing.

Randy Pearson

I lost interest in this movie a while ago.

But one thing I'm tired of is people saying 'I've seen this sort of thing a million times before and I'm sick of it, so everybody else is going to be sick of it.' Just be a little more self-aware. Most of the attitudes people witness about atheism and antitheism come from the internet. But in case everybody hasn't noticed, the internet is not the real world, and not nearly as many average people visit forums as you think they do. The vast majority of people very rarely see a film like this, and in that context, I think this film is important.

This film will be sure to draw not just atheists and fans but religious people who are actually curious about the movie, simply because it IS something different. Take a careful look at the media of America and the world, especially movies (if we're talking about a movie, then let us speak in a cinematic context). What you'll soon find is that the vast majority of the media has this eclipsing deism and theism too it, and even in the most challenging of plots and stories, the characters or narration always manages to rationalize God and make the audience feel secure again, and any characters with lingering or waning faith will find themselves brought back into the fold.

People who say this movie isn't special are speaking mainly from the context of the internet where this sort of antitheistic humor is rampant, but it just isn't so in the real world. So when curious religious audiences attend the film, they are not only going to see somebody challenge religion in general, but also this unhealthy habit we as human beings have of rationalizing an apparently all-powerful and all-loving being.

Somebody mentioned that the questions raised in this film have been around all of the time. But whenever these questions are raised in movies, television, or even books, their answers always seem to be 'God/religion is a mystery. Don't think about it.' The media always tends to create the idea that religion or belief in a god is a mandatory (if arbitrary) condition for human existence. All Bill Maher is doing is presenting people with 'Hey, there is an alternative. If it doesn't make sense, don't believe in it.' While we may have heard this on the internet billions of times, this is quite a radical concept in the film industry.
[u2]hFF7jzVfSB0[/u2]
It feels good to say what I want. It feels good to knock things down. It feels good to see the disgust in their eyes. It feels good and I\'m gonna go wild. SPRAY! PAINT! THE! WALLS!

HeinekenClock

Jesus fucking christ if you bunch of faggots would actually look at the trailor carefully before dusting off your bible/darwin quotes, it actually looks like the movie will not attack religion,but more like religious fundamentalists like that one redneck!!!!!111 111111111

GearBoxClock

Quote from: The Hero of Winds;1376889We Catholics like to call ourselves The Church. We are the Original Church.

But you're right, it's not like all of us would go at arms to boycott his crappy film.

Also seeing that preview I don't even see how Anti-theists could stand that kind of douchebaggery.

Anti-theist? thats probably the crappiest insult ever. Also, didn't the romans and greeks have churches before Catholic-ness existed? I don't know.

I'm gonna save my judgment on this film untill its out.

Slash

I wouldn't pay money for it, but then again I'm not paying for any movie these days.

RomanClock

I'm going to make a movie where I talk to crazy people who call themselves Atheists and call the movie Atheidiot! Sounds HILARIOUS :D
lemayo lol :soups:

Marlin Clock

Quote from: GearBox;1377243Anti-theist? thats probably the crappiest insult ever. Also, didn't the romans and greeks have churches before Catholic-ness existed? I don't know.

I'm gonna save my judgment on this film untill its out.
They had Temples.

Also I was just using a term Cadillac seemed to be using for Atheists that are against religion.

HeinekenClock

Quote from: GearBox;1377243Anti-theist? thats probably the crappiest insult ever.

Jesus christ gearbox guess what's the most commonly used word for "atheist" is besides atheist?

Quote from: RomanClock;1377271I'm going to make a movie where I talk to crazy people who call themselves Atheists and call the movie Atheidiot! Sounds HILARIOUS :D

Actually you pretty much nailed the point of the movie. It's fun to make fun of crazy people, but it's INAPPROPRIATE!!1 to make fun of crazy people. So you have to get a group of crazy people that share one common thing. A lot of religious crazy people are really crazy, making them even more fun to make fun of. Secondly, in this day and age it's becoming acceptable and even popular to doubt the existence of god, yet it's still a bit controversial, which means people will pay attention to it.

Very good example would be that this thread has three pages whereas a lot of threads in youwhore don't reach that many.

RomanClock

Quote from: HeinekenClock;1377287Jesus christ gearbox guess what's the most commonly used word for "atheist" is besides atheist?



Actually you pretty much nailed the point of the movie. It's fun to make fun of crazy people, but it's INAPPROPRIATE!!1 to make fun of crazy people. So you have to get a group of crazy people that share one common thing. A lot of religious crazy people are really crazy, making them even more fun to make fun of. Secondly, in this day and age it's becoming acceptable and even popular to doubt the existence of god, yet it's still a bit controversial, which means people will pay attention to it.

Very good example would be that this thread has three pages whereas a lot of threads in youwhore don't reach that many.
The problem with it though is that it takes the fringe and presents it as the norm. Also there already was a time like what you think of now happened, I just can't recal the name of the era at the moment :(
lemayo lol :soups:

Randy Pearson

Quote from: Balsac the Jaws of Death;1377309It is in highschool, and I have to listen to it every goddamn day :grumpy:

Do you know what it's like being an atheist in a private Catholic school? I think you and I have some very common ground here.

Quote from: Ti-83Clock;1376895"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him."  The man who said this was studying to become a priest.

The man who said that was trying to point out that Christian obsession with dogma and ritual rather than moral practice was what was disillusioning people (including himself).

I don't know if you're an atheist or not, but most of us don't subscribe to Nietzsche. I think you need to read some more atheist literature before you begin arbitrarily assigning inspiration for our disbelief. God isn't dead because he never existed. We don't believe that religion has at any point proved to be for the general good of mankind.

I would agree with you in the sense that many atheists (mostly the I'm a edgy teen fourteen-year old sect of us anyway) merely reject gods as a way of rejecting tedious and arbitrary ritual. But being an atheist in a private school, and coming from a Catholic upbringing, has certainly taught me that their's more to the philosophy of disbelief (and more importantly, being actively opposed to religion) then simply not wanting to go to mass every Sunday.
[u2]hFF7jzVfSB0[/u2]
It feels good to say what I want. It feels good to knock things down. It feels good to see the disgust in their eyes. It feels good and I\'m gonna go wild. SPRAY! PAINT! THE! WALLS!

Marlin Clock

Quote from: Randy Pearson;1377570We don't believe that religion has at any point proved to be for the general good of mankind.
Wow.

Blue

No matter how you slice it, dice it, melt it down... Religion is the ancient basis of all basic forms of reinforced morality. If it had never existed, the lines between right and wrong would be different in every civilization.

Without a history containing religion, there is no being that can say what is right or what is wrong. Even things which harm other beings, since these things will have no need for justification without a base morality. Without religion there are two opposing extremes which society will cling to: All for all, socialism, whatever is best for the whole is best for the one. Or, the opposite extreme, where one only cares for himself, and does what is right by himself and nothing else, man is his own god. One extreme leads to diluted humanity by loosing individuality and familial structure, and the other leads to dissolution of all structure to anarchy. The only way to have a balance between the extremes is with the presence of morality, upon which there can be the creation of laws, government and modern society, the footprint of which is firmly grounded in freedom of religion.
[FLASH=http://files.myfrogbag.com/mupff0/snowflake.swf]width=670 height=200 quality=medium wmode=transparent[/FLASH]

Randy Pearson

Quote from: Deep Blue;1377700Argues that religion is the basis for human morality

There is a line of thinking which states that the development of morality was necessitated by humans being inherently social animals and needing to cooperate if they were to survive, and that religion developed not as the basis for morality but for the control of people by one or several rulers.

If we're going to talk about ancient basis, then let's talk about humans as animals. People tend to see animals from two extremes, one in which they are peacefully living out their niche in the animal world, and the other in which they are constantly fighting with each other in chaos, tearing each other limb from limb. Both of these extremes are used by people in an attempt to distinguish themselves from and put themselves on a higher plateau than animals. The truth is that while animals have neither laws nor religion, many of them still manage to keep societies that are as stable as the environment would permit. They have their leaders and their families and pariahs, just like we do. Humans are merely highly evolved forms of these social creatures, and like these animals, we have our moments of chaos and anarchy, but we always manage to reform. If we didn't, then we would have been hunted to extinction by more efficient animal societies a long time ago.

Now that man does evolve, he becomes more self-aware and aware of the world around him. He realizes that no matter how long he lives, no matter how many beasts he conquers and makes his resources, he will never conquer death. He experiences a fear unlike any other animal. He no longer abides by the "animal condition" which drives him to socialize to survive. He now suffers from the "human condition," which makes him realize the emptiness of his existence. Man is now permanently afraid of not what he does know, but what he doesn't know.

Some members of mankind then reason that since this world seems tailor made for them that there is a big, omnipotent force that guides their success. And since they were the first to realize this, then they must be the mediums between this force and the tangible world. He then decides that there is in fact a life after this one, and that death is not simply the end. This provides solace to those of mankind who are afraid, and they associate their happiness with the rituals that the "shaman" insists will bring good favor from the force. The "shaman" becomes a celebrity, even becoming the alpha-male's chief adviser. Generations come and go, and mankind forgets how he ever could sustain a stable society without the Shaman. Things go about much as they used to, with those who disturb the fabric of life being exiled, but now what were simply crimes against the humans become crimes against the spirits (they have, after all, been indoctrinated to believe that morality was given to them by the spirits through the shaman, this being the one thing that makes him different and protects him from the savage animals). And now, any bad thing inflicted upon the village is quickly associated with actions that have angered these spirits...this...god.

And the leaders don't mind this one bit, seeing as it's much easier to get people to do what you tell them if you think that they belong to a dynasty which holds the mandate of heaven. People are not just comforted by religion, they are controlled by it, because who's going to object to the actions of somebody who receives his orders from god?

As tribes split apart, some of them choose to settle near rivers, while other decide to become nomads, carrying mankind across the world and thriving there. This separation of course causes discrepancies in ritual and folklore (hell, they can't even decide on the same god/gods). The fear is still common, however, especially for settling groups. It doesn't matter what tribe you visit, they all have their own stories about earthquakes and floods, and because of their inability to understand these events, they arbitrarily attribute them to the wrath of God. But the purpose of religion continues to be served, to provide solace to the weak, and security to the monarchs.

It is my sincere belief that people who claim that religion is the basis for morality are overestimating humans and underestimating morality.

To shorten my piece into a few sentences, no, I do not agree that religion is the basis of morality. I think that honor lies with the need to survive. Religion, on the other hand, is the product and means of fear, serves less to make people act better towards one another, and is the arbitrary result of humans coming to dominate the planet.
[u2]hFF7jzVfSB0[/u2]
It feels good to say what I want. It feels good to knock things down. It feels good to see the disgust in their eyes. It feels good and I\'m gonna go wild. SPRAY! PAINT! THE! WALLS!

RomanClock

Quote from: Randy Pearson;1377740There is a line of thinking which states that the development of morality was necessitated by humans being inherently social animals and needing to cooperate if they were to survive, and that religion developed not as the basis for morality but for the control of people by one or several rulers.

I shouldn't need to read the rest if you make such obvious and egregious assumptions as this.
lemayo lol :soups: