worst thing to happen to music?

[giant_man_elsavier]

I'd say it fits, writing can be art, music, film, paintings, sculpture, etc. seems to fit for all of them.

um no quite a lot of works of art are simply just art. something can be poetic, beautiful and artistic without thought provocation.

[ChimeClock]

a piece intended to incite thought and contemplation; art also has the nasty habit of being able to be analysed over and over again with differing interpretations and requires creativity from both the artist and the viewer to understand; as well as it has any sort of cultural impact, significant or not, but either way, memorable.

The Beatles only really became artists when they were trying to be the mothers of invention

hmm, i think you're setting your music philosophy a bit too high here

[Maltese]

um no quite a lot of works of art are simply just art. something can be poetic, mooi and artistic without thought provocation.

give me an example

you know what, it actually doesn't matter if you give me an example or not, because any example would incite thought, there is a process of understanding.

hmm, i think you're setting your music philosophy a bit too high here

I'm just not willing to settle for shit

[giant_man_elsavier]

he was an artist and a capitalist, he was making art, for money.

look it goes without saying that making music for the sole purpose of making money is dumb and has already been discussed but believe it or not most people are not like this!

[Maltese]

look it goes without saying that making music for the sole purpose of making money is dumb and has already been discussed but believe it or not most people are not like this!

no, I think there's a lot of popular musicians out there that think they're creating art, but are actually very uncreative and have been hired for that main attribute.

[giant_man_elsavier]

give me an example

but there is a million things i could post. pretty much every major artwork of the past billion years aside from conceptual works, such as maybe a few dadaist and related pieces.

[giant_man_elsavier]

no, I think there's a lot of popular musicians out there that think they're creating art, but are actually very uncreative and have been hired for that main attribute.

if they are not aware of what proceeded them (which you are implying as you believe that they think they are creating art) and have come upon these ideas themselves then they are being creative.

[Maltese]

but there is a million things i could post. pretty much every major artwork of the past billion years aside from conceptual works, such as maybe a few dadaist and related pieces.

Dada's entire purpose was to incite thought! to reject traditional ideals of art!

every major artwork does have meaning, and it causes people to think, it incites thought; whether or not it's intentional is a different matter but it doesn't change whether or not it's art.

if they are not aware of what proceeded them (which you are implying as you believe that they think they are creating art) and have come upon these ideas themselves then they are being creative.

fine, I'll put it another way.

I think there's a lot of people that think they are creating art, but in fact, they are very stupid, and only follow the mainstream

[ChimeClock]

well originality/creativity is not the only thing to analyze whiling listening, isn't it

[Maltese]

well originality/creativity is not the only thing to analyze whiling listening, isn't it

of course not, he'll that's not even what I'm analysing, although there is overlap

what I'm looking for is artistic quality, meaning, significance; which, in an artform, is the only thing to look for.

[DEVOCLOCK]

I say art is anything you can put an expressive and creative spin on. Anything can be art if you do it that way

[giant_man_elsavier]

Dada's entire purpose was to incite thought! to reject traditional ideals of art!

dadas point was to protest the absurdity of the current war.
and in any case, if you understood, say, duchamps works you would not be making this argument.

I think there's a lot of people that think they are creating art, but in fact, they are very stupid, and only follow the mainstream

wait a second, what do you listen to again

[giant_man_elsavier]

Anything can be art

fixed

[Maltese]

dadas point was to protest the absurdity of the current war.
and in any case, if you understood, say, duchamps works you would not be making this argument.


wait a second, what do you listen to again

Dada did a lot of things, and to be honest, only marcel duchamp fully understands marcel duchamp's works


I never did say what I listened to, did I

Frank Zappa, Art of Noise, Buckethead, Primus, (and all derivatives of buckethead and primus), David Bowie, Jimi Hendrix, Parliament Funkadelic, Haydn, Mozart, Vivaldi, Wagner, Paul Gilbert, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Rush

and 1966-Onward Beatles

and Max Webster, and Nash the Slash

[giant_man_elsavier]

only marcel duchamp fully understands marcel duchamp's works

quite possibly so but the point of his thought provoking works (yes i admit they are intended to be thought provoking) is to show that anything can be art. putting a urinal on a pedestal does not suddenly elevate its status to art, it was art in the first place. cages 4'33' did the same thing to sound.

Frank Zappa

also my whole point of zappa was that he is only original in appropriating early avantegarde techniques into popular music. the techniques are still derivative of avantegarde music, but does this change their quality?
and i do not understand how any other one of these artists is original or significant.

[giant_man_elsavier]

to paraphrase, every sound and image is art, the quality of which is subjective based on whatever emotional response these images or sounds give you. that is how music should be judged. sure an artwork may be significant, but what is the point of significance if the work does not appeal to you, or its significance inspires you or other people to create things you do enjoy.

[Poltergeist]

Milkshake

[Maltese]

quite possibly so but the point of his thought provoking works (yes i admit they are intended to be thought provoking) is to show that anything can be art. putting a urinal on a pedestal does not suddenly elevate its status to art, it was art in the first place. cages 4'33' did the same thing to sound.


also my whole point of zappa was that he is only original in appropriating early avantegarde techniques into popular music. the techniques are still derivative of avantegarde music, but does this change their quality?
and i do not understand how any other one of these artists is original or significant.

Everything is derivative, no ideas can form in a vacuum, it's the use of derivations that's important.


Jimi Hendrix will be remembered long after I die for elevating guitar to a higher status in a band

The Beatles will probably never be forgotten.

Frank Zappa was a brilliant composer who, in my opinion, is not appreciated enough

Art of Noise did amazing work with early studio processing technology, merging traditional instrument sounds with samples of their own music and outside sources into a cohesive form.

Buckethead is an awesome avant-garde guitarist who isn't as popular as he should be

Primus is a fantastic band headed by Les Claypool, arguably one of the greatest bassists ever, and they make fantastic music, which isn't as popular as it should be

David Bowie, do I really need to say?

Parliament Funkadelic, they're highly influencial musicians, who aren't appreciated enough

Haydn is a traditional composer, made very high tempo compositions
same with Vivaldi

Haydn would be nothing without Mozart

Wagner was a german composer, considered by Nietzsche to be the ubermensch

Paul Gilbert, brilliant guitarist, was the teacher of buckethead

Red hot chili peppers, great funk band, and as guitarist john frusciante has said, music is not about technical abilities, it's about emotional content.

Rush is the definitive canadian band, rush will never be forgotten in canada

Max Webster is a brilliant canadian band, who made very strange music

and Nash the Slash is a canadian violin player and mandolin player who creates amazing orchestral compositions with modern technology, like fuzz pedals and analogue loopers

to paraphrase, every sound and image is art, the quality of which is subjective based on whatever emotional response these images or sounds give you. that is how music should be judged. sure an artwork may be significant, but what is the point of significance if the work does not appeal to you, or its significance inspires you or other people to create things you do enjoy.

I agree.

[giant_man_elsavier]

Everything is derivative, no ideas can form in a vacuum, it's the use of derivations that's important.

but man your whole fucking argument was against derision. what are you saying? they deride from the wrong people?

Jimi Hendrix will be remembered long after I die for elevating guitar to a higher status in a band

the guitar was in a pretty high status in a band before hendrix

The Beatles will probably never be forgotten.

personally i think they're rubbish

Frank Zappa was a brilliant composer who, in my opinion, is not appreciated enough

i think he is

Art of Noise did amazing work with early studio processing technology, merging traditional instrument sounds with samples of their own music and outside sources into a cohesive form.

ever heard of musique concrete?

Buckethead is an awesome avant-garde guitarist who isn't as popular as he should be

he's overrated and you're using avantegarde pretty loosely

Primus is a fantastic band headed by Les Claypool, arguably one of the greatest bassists ever, and they make fantastic music, which isn't as popular as it should be

you know this would work if all the bands werent actually famous

David Bowie, do I really need to say?

yes

Parliament Funkadelic, they're highly influencial musicians, who aren't appreciated enough

yeah okay i dig these guys and all but youre really getting annoying

Haydn is a traditional composer, made very high tempo compositions
same with Vivaldi

changing the tempo of a pretty flawed musical system isnt that big of a development

Red hot chili peppers, great funk band, and as guitarist john frusciante has said, music is not about technical abilities, it's about emotional content.

rhcp are pretty much a gang of four tribute band

Rush is the definitive canadian band, rush will never be forgotten in canada

wanky shit

and Nash the Slash is a canadian violin player and mandolin player who creates amazing orchestral compositions with modern technology, like fuzz pedals and analogue loopers

you know like a billion people do this right

[giant_man_elsavier]

and also what is your argument anymore anyway