is he dead yet

[DiscoBallClock]

[u2]KztZmZDNCVg[/u2]

perfect.

[DiscoBallClock]

watching the smash trailer really brought back a lot of memories of not giving a shit about sephiroth and thinking he's stupid

I was struggling to remember what he even is

Sephiroth is later revealed to be the result of an experiment by the megacorporation Shinra, in which they injected him with cells from the extraterrestrial lifeform Jenova when he was still a fetus. Upon discovering this, Sephiroth decides to follow what he believes to be his destiny and take control of the Planet, while Cloud and the game's other protagonists attempt to stop him.

oh right, with the... cells.
wait what's Jenova again

Jenova (ジェノバ, Jenoba) is an extraterrestrial lifeform who crash-landed on the planet two thousand years prior to the events of VII, portrayed in multiple titles in the Compilation as a female humanoid. When Jenova originally crashed, she began infecting the Cetra with a virus, to the point that they were almost wiped out. However, a small group managed to seal Jenova in a tomb, which was lat-

omfg ok stop, fuck, I hate you.

the problem with FF VII lore is they've retconned it so many times that by now it barely makes any sense. kinda like a retroactive kingdom hearts

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

Any information beyond "weird space monster" is extraneous I think. I just love the monster designs in that game . It's all horrible bioengineered abominations or ridiculous shit like a ghost house that turns into a robot. The backgrounds too, idk why people hate on old prerendered graphics nowadays. One of these days I'm gonna beat at least 6 7 and 9 I swear to god. After I finally play through Shining Force III, that's the holy grail rpg I never got to play as a kid because the Saturn was a waste of money, which itself spans three separates games, which are finally translated now yaaaay. My Saturn emulation library is beautiful and it never could have been this way had I actually bought the console.

But yeah I've heard about the how they make the lore weird between releases and new projects. From what I can gather the first one was more of a team effort in terms of creative input and later it was just Nomura's baby, so I would assume he's just overcomplicating and retconning things to make it more the way he thinks it's supposed to be.

wow they stole that from mega man legends which came out in 1998

God I love that setting. It sucks how the Yoshinori Kawano got screwed out of a third Mega Man Legends and then they made the third and fourth Dead Risings without him and they were trash. I'm not sure if he was even gonna be involved in the cancelled MM3 or not. I'd love to see more from him, though I guess I could finally play Mega Man Zero 3 and 4. Or Tron Bonne.

[Slurpee]

I think Nomura has just always been an insanely bad writer and nobody wants to admit it

just from like an economy of story perspective, every single conflict or plot point has at least 3 extra steps separating it from the purpose it actually serves in the narrative (if any), and it doesn't coalesce in an elegant way or even into a coherent whole, it's just cruft

"Plarmar is the 351st descendent of Skurzimmar, whose descendent was prophecized to bring the life crystal back to the Maji Core and prevent the Applafors from exterminating the Yozarr, which would allow them (the Applafors) to take over the world. When Plarmar was born, Zazzimurr, leader of the Applafors, decided to end the stalemate by having Plarmar executed by the assassin Rodiim, but Plarmar fell in love with Sassiphoon, a talented young witch and airforce pilot who unbeknownst to Plarmar was also the last of the Bloomera, the people who Skurzimmar infected with the quillmo virus 5000 years ago. But Zazzimurr was unexpectedly deposed by Gharzer, Plarmar's classmate and arrogant Skeezball rival and former child soldier who blamed Zazzimurr for the death of his uncle. but unbeknownst to Gharzer, his uncle was actually a spy for POOJACK, a sinister corporation tasked with sealing ancient alien orb technology in locations around the planet know as the Taskar Pyramids, which were built by the Fondaloo Hegemony, a secretive cult of swamp sorcerers djhbagkjdggsjfs"

jesus christ I'm a genius look how deep and rich this story is
and then at the end, get this, Plarmar and his friends (including Rodiim and Gharzer 😲) open The Dark Dimension and kill God

but that's just the beginning! because Sassiphoon is trapped in the Maji Core and

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

I don't actually remember the story beyond aerifdies.jpg I just thought it was a fun cool place to adventure around in and kill monsters, never even beat it though cause it was a borrowed ps1 though I have an idea of what happens. I think kids were just enamored with Sephiroth's and Cloud's swords at the time and thought the story was good as a result.

Talking about cruft though, I'm not opposed to extraneous information in a video game. I'm not dealing with Dune or Kim's "read the back of the book CONSTANTLY" shit even if they're good books but in a video game you can have that stuff. If the story demands you know all this stuff to understand it that's dumb but I don't mind if it's background flavor text. It's not those single lines of texts for bookshelves in old rpgs, the weapon descriptions in Dark Souls or half the documents you find in a survival horror game matter but they add to the experience in a way you can't get with other forms of media. At least not efficiently. Though if you're going for a bizarre otherworldly abomination specifically I think it's often better to have an explanation and backstory, but never give it. At least not fully.

That's all said not remembering how the game handles it though. JRPGs back then would sometimes just dump that random shit on you in textboxes in a cutscene in lieu of actual storytelling. Hell even Mother 3 did that years later but the info is at least interesting and important rather than stuff that should be extra.

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

There's this bit from Perfect Hair Forever that just like what you're talking about with the game's storytelling but youtube doesn't have the clip. I know that's the entire show but there's a specific part where he talks about how the yugioh barrier is attracting the debris and the something something is I don't know it just goes on like that.

[VCRClock]

It's not those single lines of texts for bookshelves in old rpgs

excuse me while i make an rpg maker game where all you do is look at bookshelves

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

excuse me while i make an rpg maker game where all you do is look at bookshelves

I have a pathological need to check every bookshelf in an rpg that would probably kill me and I'd play it anyways

[PhantomCatClock]

elevator: source but a library

[Slurpee]

I don't actually remember the story beyond aerifdies.jpg I just thought it was a fun cool place to adventure around in and kill monsters, never even beat it though cause it was a borrowed ps1 though I have an idea of what happens. I think kids were just enamored with Sephiroth's and Cloud's swords at the time and thought the story was good as a result.

Talking about cruft though, I'm not opposed to extraneous information in a video game. I'm not dealing with Dune or Kim's "read the back of the book CONSTANTLY" shit even if they're good books but in a video game you can have that stuff. If the story demands you know all this stuff to understand it that's dumb but I don't mind if it's background flavor text. It's not those single lines of texts for bookshelves in old rpgs, the weapon descriptions in Dark Souls or half the documents you find in a survival horror game matter but they add to the experience in a way you can't get with other forms of media. At least not efficiently. Though if you're going for a bizarre otherworldly abomination specifically I think it's often better to have an explanation and backstory, but never give it. At least not fully.

That's all said not remembering how the game handles it though. JRPGs back then would sometimes just dump that random shit on you in textboxes in a cutscene in lieu of actual storytelling. Hell even Mother 3 did that years later but the info is at least interesting and important rather than stuff that should be extra.

I don't mind extraneous information
if anybody wants to go nuts with lore or a codex, rats off to ya

my issue is when it gets in the way of motivated action
as a rule, the greater the distance between action and motive, the less meaningful the resulting conflict and character arcs, and that goes for any medium

why does cloud fight sephiroth?
[tiny brain] he wants to take over the world, messed with his mind, burned down his hometown, and killed his girlfriend

[galaxy brain] he wants to summon a meteor to destroy the world, manipulated his amnesia, burned down his hometown when they were in a supersoldier program together, and killed one of two girls he was romantically interested in

[nomura brain] he wants to a summon a meteor to damage the world so that it will try to heal itself using a global mystical force called the lifestream which he can then merge with, manipulated the false memories and personality from Cloud's friend Zack that had accidentally been implanted in Cloud's brain due to exposure to mako radiation and cells from an alien lifeform called jenova which cloud mistakenly believed to be amnesia, burned down his hometown when he and zack (who cloud mistakenly believed to have been him) were in a supersoldier program together, and killed a girl that cloud mistakenly believed to have been one of two girls he was romantically interested in when he had the false memories and personality of his friend zack accidentally implanted in his brain which he believed to be amnesia

oh. uh... wait, why does cloud fight sephiroth?
...

[Slurpee]

why does cloud fight sephiroth?
[smash bros] he saw him

[Slurpee]

[Slurpee]

welp, blackboard has served me a pretty catastrophic bit of circumstances on one of my finals which I'm going to choose to interpret as God's punishment for making fun of based Nomura

gonna try to get it sorted out, please send thoughts and prayers

[PhantomCatClock]

i've never had to make my own dns records (completely from scratch) before and I was going nuts but it turned out it all worked, just www. was making it not resolve on my phone (it worked without the www.) and I'm too lazy to set my apache to catch that so i just made another a record THE END

[RobClock]

welp, blackboard has served me a pretty catastrophic bit of circumstances on one of my finals which I'm going to choose to interpret as God's punishment for making fun of based Nomura

gonna try to get it sorted out, please send thoughts and prayers

🙏🏻

[DiscoBallClock]

Any information beyond "weird space monster" is extraneous I think. I just love the monster designs in that game . It's all horrible bioengineered abominations or ridiculous shit like a ghost house that turns into a robot. The backgrounds too, idk why people hate on old prerendered graphics nowadays. One of these days I'm gonna beat at least 6 7 and 9 I swear to god. After I finally play through Shining Force III, that's the holy grail rpg I never got to play as a kid because the Saturn was a waste of money, which itself spans three separates games, which are finally translated now yaaaay. My Saturn emulation library is beautiful and it never could have been this way had I actually bought the console.

But yeah I've heard about the how they make the lore weird between releases and new projects. From what I can gather the first one was more of a team effort in terms of creative input and later it was just Nomura's baby, so I would assume he's just overcomplicating and retconning things to make it more the way he thinks it's supposed to be.

wow they stole that from mega man legends which came out in 1998

God I love that setting. It sucks how the Yoshinori Kawano got screwed out of a third Mega Man Legends and then they made the third and fourth Dead Risings without him and they were trash. I'm not sure if he was even gonna be involved in the cancelled MM3 or not. I'd love to see more from him, though I guess I could finally play Mega Man Zero 3 and 4. Or Tron Bonne.

I think we've talked about this on discord but 9 is very much worth it dude

[DiscoBallClock]

welp, blackboard has served me a pretty catastrophic bit of circumstances on one of my finals which I'm going to choose to interpret as God's punishment for making fun of based Nomura

gonna try to get it sorted out, please send thoughts and prayers

1 like = 1 prayer


regarding complex lore, honestly it's all about how you present it, kinda like Flounderman was saying. you have very distinct examples even in final fantasy itself. FFX did a fantastic job with it because they were able to weave this complex lore without it feeling too burdensome or overly complex. basically, they had a valid excuse to explain things as they were becoming relevant, and not just throw random information at your face

conversely, FF XIII copped out on that and just made it so complicated and convoluted with their lore, without any of it even being shown or seen on screen, one didn't even understand how that wall of text you just had to read has anything to do with the game you're playing. if you asked me to explain it, i wouldn't know. some shit about being cursed by gods or something, idk.

my point is, convoluted lore isn't the problem, even if it directly affects the action of the game, as long as it is presented to you in a way in which you can actually follow. the OG FF VII wasn't too bad in that regard imo (okay maybe a bit with the whole Cloud/Zack thing), but the FF series has worse offenders

[GreyClock]

Your own mind is your one greatest enemy... when you're at your most nihilistic (and drunk)... just go out and buy some cigarettes tomorrow you fleck of dog dirt, fuck existence.

Like inhaling nicotine and tar and about eighty other chemicals solves any of those issues at its core, it might just subdue them for a little while.

At the same time, why resist? Emphysema, cancer, you rolled that dice a long time ago and dead is dead. Even if you were to die at ninety, it's sooner than you think and no matter what you do the outcome is already set for you and permanent.

You really want to potter around as a seventy year old version of yourself one day? Fuck smoking, go out and buy some smack.

I was standing up, half crouching over the keyboard typing that and my cat jumped onto my back for some reason?! He's just sitting there now, while I'm wrapping up this post.

[Slurpee]

regarding complex lore, honestly it's all about how you present it, kinda like Flounderman was saying. you have very distinct examples even in final fantasy itself. FFX did a fantastic job with it because they were able to weave this complex lore without it feeling too burdensome or overly complex. basically, they had a valid excuse to explain things as they were becoming relevant, and not just throw random information at your face

conversely, FF XIII copped out on that and just made it so complicated and convoluted with their lore, without any of it even being shown or seen on screen, one didn't even understand how that wall of text you just had to read has anything to do with the game you're playing. if you asked me to explain it, i wouldn't know. some shit about being cursed by gods or something, idk.

my point is, convoluted lore isn't the problem, even if it directly affects the action of the game, as long as it is presented to you in a way in which you can actually follow. the OG FF VII wasn't too bad in that regard imo (okay maybe a bit with the whole Cloud/Zack thing), but the FF series has worse offenders

right
you're describing motivated action bro

clarity is more a function of relevance than it is of simplicity, sure
but relevance is, largely, a function of motive

in FFX you know what Tidus and Yuna want on a moment to moment basis
you learn what a summoner is because you're helping Yuna, you learn about the ethnic tensions with the Al Bhed because you're friends with Rikku, you learn about Dream Zanarkand because Tidus wants to go home

it's about what the characters want and why they're doing what they're doing, so it's useful to you, so you understand it

there's other reasons for a player to consider information relevant- curiosity's a good one- but character motive is the strongest because it's there for anybody consuming the story

[GreyClock]

Your own mind is your one greatest enemy... when you're at your most nihilistic (and drunk)... just go out and buy some cigarettes tomorrow you fleck of dog dirt, fuck existence.

Like inhaling nicotine and tar and about eighty other chemicals solves any of those issues at its core, it might just subdue them for a little while.

At the same time, why resist? Emphysema, cancer, you rolled that dice a long time ago and dead is dead. Even if you were to die at ninety, it's sooner than you think and no matter what you do the outcome is already set for you and permanent.

You really want to potter around as a seventy year old version of yourself one day? Fuck smoking, go out and buy some smack.

I was standing up, half crouching over the keyboard typing that and my cat jumped onto my back for some reason?! He's just sitting there now, while I'm wrapping up this post.

lmao