Death Penalty?

F U Clock · September 21, 2011, 08:06:09 PM

All of this stuff with the Troy Anthony Davis execution brings the death penalty question back to national attention. What do you guys think? Is the death penalty justice or is it just too harsh considering we know innocent people have been put to death?

I don't have too firm of a stance on it, to be honest. I tend to lean towards thinking it's unnecessary. To me, rotting in prison for the rest of your life is more of a punishment than the release death brings a murderer. Conversely, it may not be pleasant but it at least allows innocent people time to be proven innocent, which has happened before, notably when DNA evidence started being used in criminal cases.

VuBawlsClock · September 21, 2011, 08:09:50 PM

I think that (unless they have done a mass slaughter of people) if they have a life time sentence, they should have the choice of death.

BoomStick Clock · September 21, 2011, 08:12:04 PM

Personally I think life imprisonment is a much harsher punishment than death.
death is the end of pain (no I don't believe in an afterlife) and should ideally in judiciary terms be phased out. Gotta maximize the terror and pain you inflict on the condemned...although it IS an extra drain to the economy keeping all them lifers alive for so long.

Marlin Clock · September 21, 2011, 08:19:36 PM

I don't believe in revenge. Killing a murderer doesn't change what he did, it just add to the bodycount.

Sombra · September 21, 2011, 08:21:04 PM

I'd argue for it in the case of executing convicted multiple murderers.

It's fucking ridiculous how much money America spends on a prisoner each year (don't get me started on drug crimes). That shit adds up and I don't agree with taxpayer money going to sustaining the life of murderers. Giving a life sentence with no chance of parole is condemning them to serve out their punishment for the rest of their life, against their will. The US penal system claims to be about reform, so I don't exactly see the logic in life imprisonment as a better alternative to execution.

Slurpee · September 21, 2011, 08:26:06 PM

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AdrenalineClock · September 21, 2011, 09:14:50 PM

Quote from: Sombra;1857154It's fucking ridiculous how much money America spends on a prisoner each year (don't get me started on drug crimes). That shit adds up and I don't agree with taxpayer money going to sustaining the life of murderers. Giving a life sentence with no chance of parole is condemning them to serve out their punishment for the rest of their life, against their will. The US penal system claims to be about reform, so I don't exactly see the logic in life imprisonment as a better alternative to execution.

It costs the legal system more to execute a prisoner than incarcerating them for life.

I think prison's primary purpose is removing dangerous criminals from society. Reforming them is secondary.

Thor · September 21, 2011, 09:15:09 PM

I can't watch that youtube link right now so I'll just pretend it doesn't exist for now

I take a pragmatist view on the court system; the goal is to reduce crime. Punishing people, while it might be enjoyable to those wronged, doesn't actually accomplish anything in and of itself. Long prison sentences as a deterrent to crime simply don't work, and people who go to prisons often come out worse than when they went in. I think if somebody has committed a crime severe enough to earn them life in prison it is simply a matter of cost efficiency to kill them after a reasonable time (enough time for evidence of innocence to surface) rather than hold them for a long time.

The idea that we shouldn't kill them because it's worse in jail strikes me as really inhumane and I hope the people in this thread suggesting it are joking.

Quote from: Sadrenaline;1857180It costs the legal system more to execute a prisoner than incarcerating them for life.

That's because the government has gone out of its way to find the most expensive and impracticable ways possible to kill somebody so that the last seconds before they're FUCKING DEAD AND WONT REMEMBER IT is less painful

They should bring back the guillotine. I'm completely serious

Sombra · September 21, 2011, 09:28:27 PM

Quote from: Sadrenaline;1857180It costs the legal system more to execute a prisoner than incarcerating them for life.

How's that?

Quote from: Sadrenaline;1857180I think prison's primary purpose is removing dangerous criminals from society. Reforming them is secondary.

You think that's how it should be, or how it is? Because if you're arguing the latter, you need to look at some statistics on how many people in prison are actually there for violent crime.

F U Clock · September 21, 2011, 09:34:47 PM

Quote from: Sombra;1857184How's that?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/

AdrenalineClock · September 21, 2011, 09:37:50 PM

Quote from: Sombra;1857184How's that?

You think that's how it should be, or how it is? Because if you're arguing the latter, you need to look at some statistics on how many people in prison are actually there for violent crime.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost

The cost question is not a fully agreed upon fact, but there's at least a debate as to whether the death penalty is cost effective, ignoring the fact that it's morally wrong.

It's how I think it should be.

BluezombieClock · September 21, 2011, 09:41:40 PM

I can never vouch for a death penalty, it would be completely hypocritical of us.

You killed him ; we kill you.

And as it was mentioned above, prison is a much more painful sentence than death.

WiiClock · September 21, 2011, 10:01:47 PM

I think it's great.

VuBawlsClock · September 21, 2011, 10:04:34 PM

Whats the point of punishing them with death if they can't even feel the pain of dieing?

AmberArachnidClock · September 21, 2011, 10:06:06 PM

it costs less to hold someone for life than to sentence them to death because of all the court fees. Also criminals getting put to death tend to feel less bad about whatever crime they did because they're gonna die for it. It's a waste of resources and unnecessary, and if you care about overcrowded prisons then just get the stoners out of there.

Also whatever happened to the brotherhood of humanity? You don't kill people that don't fit into society, you lock em up!

Thor · September 21, 2011, 10:09:09 PM

Quote from: BluezombieClock;1857190I can never vouch for a death penalty, it would be completely hypocritical of us.

You killed him ; we kill you.

And as it was mentioned above, prison is a much more painful sentence than death.

It's not at all hypocritical! It's very possible to kill somebody legally in a number of circumstances. Protecting yourself or your personal property with a shotgun, for example. There's also some leeway for crimes of passion.

What we're doing with the death sentence is
you killed him or multiple people without a good reason; we kill you for a good reason

F U Clock · September 21, 2011, 10:21:34 PM

Quote from: Thor;1857197It's not at all hypocritical! It's very possible to kill somebody legally in a number of circumstances. Protecting yourself or your personal property with a shotgun, for example. There's also some leeway for crimes of passion.

What we're doing with the death sentence is
you killed him or multiple people without a good reason; we kill you for a good reason

Think of it this way; you're a Tae Kwon Do instructor right? You would never just whoop someone's ass for fun. But if someone were about to fight you, you would fight them back to defend yourself. However, if you found out your neighbor had kicked the shit out of a guy on the street, would you condone just going up to said neighbor later and kicking his ass in retribution? Maybe you would, I don't know the code or whatever, but it seems wrong to me to do that. Sort of a two wrongs thing. Though it would make a pretty good movie...

Thor · September 21, 2011, 10:37:45 PM

Quote from: F U Clock;1857210Think of it this way; you're a Tae Kwon Do instructor right? You would never just whoop someone's ass for fun. But if someone were about to fight you, you would fight them back to defend yourself. However, if you found out your neighbor had kicked the shit out of a guy on the street, would you condone just going up to said neighbor later and kicking his ass in retribution? Maybe you would, I don't know the code or whatever, but it seems wrong to me to do that. Sort of a two wrongs thing. Though it would make a pretty good movie...

You seem to be thinking of the death penalty as a revenge for something. It's not. The whole point of the criminal justice system is to PREVENT CRIMES FROM OCCURRING. If I had previously made it known on my block that I was a martial artist and would kick the ass of anybody who kicks somebodies ass then your analogy would be accurate.

Lets try a different direction. Lets say there is a person who has killed many times before and has shown no remorse for his deeds, and is very likely to kill again if released. Furthermore, there is a HUGE body of evidence that he is guilty, leaving no shadow of doubt at all. Specifically, John Wayne Gacy. Why shouldn't this man have been killed immediately after he was sent to prison? Say, a week afterward. While in prison he cost tons of money with repeated appeals and various other legal shit, and he NEVER felt any remorse. Why not just kill him quickly and get it done with?

Topcatyo · September 21, 2011, 11:00:23 PM

I say replace the death penalty with lifetime solitary confinement.

Nobody wants to fuck with solitary confinement.

As for the case with Troy Davis I don't know where to start, I'm not going to pretend I knew about it before today though I've read up on it a little bit and it all seems like a big load of bullshit what has happened.

Sombra · September 21, 2011, 11:07:20 PM

Couple things to add:

They just executed Troy Davis about an hour ago.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/21/national/main20109883.shtml

Also I'm seeing a lot of evidence saying yes it's very expensive to execute them, still not sure if it actually costs more or not because there's a lot of conflicting reports. I looked at Amnesty International link but you have to factor that they certainly benefit from talking more about the supporting evidence than the contradictory evidence.

Not sure how often death row inmates are allowed to delay execution but it's pretty much the norm for the execution to take place years afterward, if at all. Like 25% of all deaths on death row are from natural causes.

News:

Death Penalty?