Quote from: AnkhClock;1573557In all honesty I'd be totally in favor of scrapping the Clockification system if we were allowed to be dicks to the new members. I just feel that people aren't going to try to flame anyone new because it risks banishment.
I think a good compromise would be to make some sort of edict allowing (at least) moderate trolling in the welcome forum.

Yes

I do believe that this community should shape its own initiation system, and from what I've seen there are plenty of people that would support some form of Validation of new members. I was there during the "elitist" period before the Clockification system supposedly "fell apart". It was fine. It became a sensational issue because, from what I can remember, KodiakClock and some others started getting people riled up and they demanded an end to the system, which in Kodiak's own words was because he wanted to prove that he had influence. When I joined the Clock Crew of course I was separated, but the only real exclusion happened to people that acted like fucking idiots. I wasn't a great new member, but I knew my place and people were still exceptionally helpful to me. I never saw the "rampant elitism" that seemed to be such a problem. In fact I would even say perhaps too many people got clockified. There were very few people that did not eventually become clockified, and from my memory, those were the ones that did not ever change at all.

Quote from: poppa;1573361as opposed to people just joining up and not doing jack shit to begin with

in all honesty who the fuck cares, i was a clockfriend during these times and you guys havent made me suicidal yet so they can get the fuck over it

introducing a new initiation process does not mean you have to hit the restart button on clock crew

the clock crew has never been more meaningless than now

shit is going way too fucking well for you guys to be acting this miserable.

honestly I feel like you'd have to just not be paying attention, because in just the last, like, couple weeks of threads:
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86915
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86960
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86819
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86817
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=85533
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86917
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86912
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86706
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86744
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86635
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86687
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86673
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86498
http://www.clockcrew.cc/talk/showthread.php?t=86600
those are all flash threads

the crew is producing so much that it's become untenable to sticky every flash thread. compare this to a couple months ago when we were getting maybe 3 or 4 flashes in a good week, and nobody was fucking watching them because they were tucked away in the incoming forum.

deliver that fulp and welcome to the big top both won awards, and were front paged on newgrounds.
wobbuffet and rocketfetus have each made probably 7 or 8 flashes just in the last month, and they're newer than the majority of our userbase.

sports is actually a decent forum, plato's playground is.... not completely unfortunate. absinthe is managing a fairly routine Clock of the Month system, the bots are gone, the anime forum's gone.

what is calling for reform, other than a handful of malcontents getting restless?

Quote from: ToyotaClock;1573651I was there during the "elitist" period before the Clockification system supposedly "fell apart". It was fine. It became a sensational issue because, from what I can remember, KodiakClock and some others started getting people riled up and they demanded an end to the system, which in Kodiak's own words was because he wanted to prove that he had influence.

and, again, I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

the only way kodiak was responsible for ending the clockification system is that he was the most blatant example of the failures of the system. he was voted through without having made a single flash movie, not knowing anything about the clock crew, and wasn't even particularly pleasant to be around, and once he was on the other side, his head swelled to gargantuan proportions.

clockification ended, as all lasting major site changes occur, because we had a lengthly and reasoned debate in the staff forum, weighed the plusses and minuses, and settled on removing it. any shitstorm that you might remember was taken into account at best as indicative of a larger problem.

Quote from: ToyotaClock;1573651I never saw the "rampant elitism" that seemed to be such a problem. In fact I would even say perhaps too many people got clockified.

exactly. did I not just explain this?
too many people got clockified, who didn't deserve it. a couple users passed by, like, two votes. so who the fuck were we keeping out, and what, exactly, were we rewarding people for?


guys, I would need a reason to reinstate clockification.
what would be better about clockification than our current system?

breaking it down, it has two benefits:
-rewarding production
-keeping the riffraff out

production is, as I noted, not a problem. flash production is going swimmingly, as previously noted, and, as I've said before, the motivator disappears once somebody's actually been clockified. I know you, Toyota, back when you were snakehead, were an exception, and didn't produce flash until after you were clockified, but that's anecdotal. if somebody's working for a reward, and they get the reward, and there are no further rewards to be obtained, they stop working. that's just the nature of extrinsic motivation.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea."

its ability to keep out social malcontents and other undesirables was, as I said, and you inadvertently alluded to, nil. people were getting in regardless of their ability, experience, and social grace.

and on the other hand, there were more problems than its failure to do what it was supposed to.
number one, and I touched on this earlier, is that in group dynamics, there's supposed to be some manner, whatever it may be, of accretion, for members in good standing. clockification not only didn't mesh with the members who are actually in good standing, but often clashed with it. kodiak was in the same group as dwarfinator. by assigning arbitrary meaning to the designation, we were equating people based on their groups, assigned by an arbitrary system.
number 2, and, again, I went over this, clockification treated what should be a given for every member, flash production and good posting, as exceptional behavior, which it's not.
number 3, again, who the fuck are we, but more particularly who the fuck are you? who do you think you are? if I only let in people that I liked, do you think you'd be in here? maybe I've got a secret forum for members I hold in good standing already, and you're just not invited. maybe I'll take it a step further, and I'll kick out everybody that's not in my club.
who am I to do that?
fucking exactly.
number 4, the idiots that never get clockification can still post on the fucking forums. we're not getting rid of them, we're keeping them out of ONE forum, which, if the times were any indication, would be used almost exclusively for making fun of them.

clockification is nothing but a distraction, and by absolutely no measure do its benefits outweigh its detriments.

Quote from: Andou Ringo;1573498This. When I was clockified by the introduction of the new system, I was kinda disappointed because I didn't earn it. If we bring this system back, I want to be a clockfriend/fan again, just so I can actually earn the right to actually be called a Clock.

this post is exactly why some people dont want it reinstated

also if you do it get rid of the clockfriend/fan names they just make us look like homos.whats wrong with 'member'

I always saw the clockification system as less as it was becoming one of the clocks, nay, it was more earning the title of clock. Sure, the green door was fun and all , but it was just really a perk. When I finally got clockified, I didn't get satisfaction of being able to access a forum, it was finally earning the title of clock.

Earning your name is what it was about to me, to finally become not just a clock in name, but a functioning member of the clockcrew. The only thing that really peeved me off was how IIDX was constantly denied his clockship from a bunch of people that didn't like him, despite the fact he was probably the most active member at the time, releasing more flash then the next two below him.

I always liked the idea of the clockification system, the fact that you're here to learn the clock way, to inspire to become better in flash, and most importantly being able to get the nice title of official clock by your name.

When I first stumbled upon the CC, I always admired them from afar, appreciating their antics, and loving their flash. Never on that day would I figure I would eventually end up as PolyhedronClock. Heck, when I first joined the forums, I still had no intention to even get flash. I stayed around for a while, got flammed by bad posting habbits of that of a newgrounders, and eventually learned that it's not about being an idiot full of memes, but rather the capability to maturely post, as well as being funny at times.

I started to take the CC seriously when the next summer started, I even remember reviewing each of my posts word by word in fear that I'd post something stupid. Eventually, I matured (in the clock sense) and lightened up.

I think the idea that I'm trying to get accross is that when I joined, I looked up to the people that were here. I wanted to be better to them, art-wise and forum-ettiquete. I become productive, and even when I was finally clockified, I still made stuff. Being an official clock wasn't the end of my flash career, as it just kept moving and moving until it stopped on unrelated matters.

Elitism is good, as long as it's to guide the people to become better, and it gives them something to strive for and be productive.

Quote from: PolyhedronClock;1573749stuff

off topic but huh I always thought you joined a few months before me (before the Clockification system)

my main reason of opposition: the "clock" title has never, is never and should never be a thing to take too seriously

hell, I was for the most part voting everybody yes during the system

Quote from: ToyotaClock;1572492That would be worse.

Worked fine then.

QuoteI look back to my original point, and that is, if the community does not want someone to be a part of it, they should have the right to reject them.

It's more fun to make them cry until they leave. That's how we traditionally weeded out the weak.

Quote from: AnkhClock;1572490I'm afraid that doesn't quite work out as well as it used to because members who flamed new idiot recruits are less active (such as Arctic or Triangle) or seem to have mellowed out more (like Golden).

Then we'll just have to pick up the slack.

Quoteexactly. did I not just explain this?
too many people got clockified, who didn't deserve it. a couple users passed by, like, two votes. so who the fuck were we keeping out, and what, exactly, were we rewarding people for?

FileCabinet was kept from being clockified for a kajillion years because people overreacted to the Colbert Report publicity stunt fuckup. Then people forgot why they were mad, they just knew that they hated him because everyone else said so. Including people who were too new to even know about the incident. Petty bullshit kept people out, petty bullshit got people in too fast, and overall the whole system never lived up to the ideal of it.

To become a clock everyone should be forced to take a naked picture of themselves with a rat stuffed entirely up their uretha.

Quote from: Slurpee;1573692clockification is nothing but a distraction, and by absolutely no measure do its benefits outweigh its detriments.

yes! the system created drama, fighting, a fuckload of flash, bitching and plenty of newcomers were scarred and turned into assholes

i used to come here everyday to see what new shit was stirred up and not one of you guys can say it wasnt fun. now what do i come here for? usually just to be a miserable prick because ive got nothing to do

the admins are looking at it from a web admin perspective, keeping it running good, drama down, productivity up, etc etc, but not from a 'this is the fucking clockcrew' perspective, keeping it interesting, making enemies, flash battles, portal partys and enough of this quality flash bullshit

stability has no place in the clock crew

I like the old system where the site would go down every year or so, it would add to the CC "story" and inspire a bunch of dudes to make cool flashes and the new sites were always pretty cool.

its pretty much been downhill since we got hosted by newgrounds because we cant really attack them and no one can attack us

We need more trolls and horrible posters to keep threads funny.

Quote from: Ã"láfr;1573974It's more fun to make them cry until they leave. That's how we traditionally weeded out the weak.

Then start doing it.

I have seen plenty of shit members join and plenty of people not weeding them out.

It's not so much that I want clockification back necessarily, I want there to be less social undesirables here as Slurpee said, and I don't feel that the community is doing enough to keep them out. I agree with Sinister and Ankh, if we were allowed to haze new members then it might be better. I don't see why we're not allowed to haze them.

Quote from: poppa;1574098yes! the system created drama, fighting, a fuckload of flash, bitching and plenty of newcomers were scarred and turned into assholes

i used to come here everyday to see what new shit was stirred up and not one of you guys can say it wasnt fun. now what do i come here for? usually just to be a miserable prick because ive got nothing to do

the admins are looking at it from a web admin perspective, keeping it running good, drama down, productivity up, etc etc, but not from a 'this is the fucking clockcrew' perspective, keeping it interesting, making enemies, flash battles, portal partys and enough of this quality flash bullshit

stability has no place in the clock crew

This right here.

You all are horrible clocks you should be ashamed of yourselves I miss the good old days.

Quote from: Ã"láfr;1573974Then we'll just have to pick up the slack.

Quote from: AnkhClock;1573557In all honesty I'd be totally in favor of scrapping the Clockification system if we were allowed to be dicks to the new members. I just feel that people aren't going to try to flame anyone new because it risks banishment.
I think a good compromise would be to make some sort of edict allowing (at least) moderate trolling in the welcome forum.

i got clockified the way most people did so why cant these guys

Quote from: poppa;1573693also if you do it get rid of the clockfriend/fan names they just make us look like homos.whats wrong with 'member'

This I agree on, but I still say earning my rights would've been a much more enjoyable experience then having them given to me.

Quote from: Sinister;1574120I like the old system where the site would go down every year or so, it would add to the CC "story" and inspire a bunch of dudes to make cool flashes and the new sites were always pretty cool.

yeah that was pretty cool.

Quote from: ToyotaClock;1574157I have seen plenty of shit members join and plenty of people not weeding them out.

It's not so much that I want clockification back necessarily, I want there to be less social undesirables here as Slurpee said, and I don't feel that the community is doing enough to keep them out.

are there names, or are you just directing general aggression at the boogyman of your choice without anything substantive?

Quote from: ToyotaClock;1574157I agree with Sinister and Ankh, if we were allowed to haze new members then it might be better. I don't see why we're not allowed to haze them.

look at limewire's introduction thread and tell me we're being soft on new members.

blanket statement: if you're too much of a bitch to troll in fear of being banned I don't know what the fuck you think you're doing trolling anyway.

no asylum for fake-ass gangstas.

Quote from: poppa;1574098yes! the system created drama, fighting, a fuckload of flash, bitching and plenty of newcomers were scarred and turned into assholes

i used to come here everyday to see what new shit was stirred up and not one of you guys can say it wasnt fun. now what do i come here for? usually just to be a miserable prick because ive got nothing to do

the admins are looking at it from a web admin perspective, keeping it running good, drama down, productivity up, etc etc, but not from a 'this is the fucking clockcrew' perspective, keeping it interesting, making enemies, flash battles, portal partys and enough of this quality flash bullshit

stability has no place in the clock crew

oh well jesus I'm sorry. here I was trying to manage a decent congregation site for my friends in the clock crew, to foster a fun creative environment, and I completely forgot that we're a group of delinquent 6 year olds.

would a website full of miserable bullshit be more conducive to doing those things that nobody is stopping you from doing miraclefruit? no, yeah, I'm with you. being a reckless nazi is easier anyway. I'll get right on clockification. let me know if you think of any more ways to raise some hell brother.

The vote system was the best