You should probably look at this.

[DWARFINATORclock]

I still don't see why they are getting their panties in a bunch over A COUPLE OF MOVIES SUBMITTED TO THE PORTAL. Isn't that exactly what the portal is made for, submitting movies?

Seriously. If it's a crime to have 40 similarly themed movies submitted on the same day they should start banning people who make sonic/sprite/hentai movies.

[LeekClock]

It's a business, dwarfinator, not just Tom's hobby. If users find that their movies don't get the attention they deserve on the site, then they will get upset and leave Newgrounds to find a better place to showcase their work. If a good artist leaves Newgrounds then the fulps lose a lot of money from the millions of hits that the artists' flashes would have attracted.

Anyway, I'm pretty pissed that some internet heroes are making the Clock Crew look like a bunch of ungrateful brats. Because when Tom Fulp stops paying for hosting, none of these brats will stick around to take over. And I won't be able to pay for it either.

[DWARFINATORclock]

It's a business, dwarfinator, not just Tom's hobby. If users find that their movies don't get the attention they deserve on the site, then they will get upset and leave Newgrounds to find a better place to showcase their work. If a good artist leaves Newgrounds then the fulps lose a lot of money from the millions of hits that the artists' flashes would have attracted.

Anyway, I'm pretty pissed that some internet heroes are making the Clock Crew look like a bunch of ungrateful brats. Because when Tom Fulp stops paying for hosting, none of these brats will stick around to take over. And I won't be able to pay for it either.

I seriously doubt that a top user would leave NG or lose views over it. What will happen to NG if it grows even bigger than it already has? That would mean more movies submitted per day and that would mean top users would leave because of it?

I understand your point, and I don't want to upset you or Tom, but I just feel like things are being exaggerated here.

[LeekClock]

I think the main issue is that Tom is one of the few people who have supported us all along, and without whom the cc would not exist (for many reasons). Calling his brother and his sister in law names and upsetting his business, wasting his time, and generally making him regret ever supporting us, puts him in a very awkward position, where the easiest option is just to drop us and never help us out again.

And I don't want to represent a group of people who are hellbent on just being assholes without a cause, or without any direction or moral code. The world is full of these people already.  As long as people put their passions to good creative uses and keep from pissing off those who help us to continue doing what we do, then i'm happy.

Tom Fulp is not Newgrounds and he is not their public. We can still do what we've always done, without also targeting our "allies" and friends, and without targeting eachother.

[GreyClock]

We can still do what we've always done, without also targeting our "allies" and friends, and without targeting eachother.

Bullshit. We can't do both, because targeting our "allies," friends and eachother is part of what we've always done.




Welcome, Newgrounds runs us.

[LeekClock]

So, because there's no animosity between Tom Fulp and us, you have to create it to satisfy the image that we are outcasts, despite us never actually managing to piss off Tom Fulp before last year?

[StrangeClock]

On both Clock Days of the last two years, Tom gave us full choice in how to spend several hundreds of dollars on winners, straight out of his pocket, to name another thing he's done for us. Is there no gray area between "he bought our obedience" and "we didn't ask for it, so fuck him"? Cause personally, I've always seen him as a friend of the Clock Crew, and if a friend gets angry over something I did, I don't say "fuck off, you don't own me", I try to look at it from his side.

Thinking about it a bit more, I'm none too happy about the idea that Rupee went to him and painted such an ugly picture of the state of the Clock Crew. So yeah, he should be given our side of the story. I just don't rightly know what to tell him that isn't an apology. "Nobody likes Rupee because he doesn't hate Newgrounds enough"?

[PirateClock]

"nobody likes Ruppe because he's an ass kisser"  would be more appropiate.

[GreyClock]

So, because there's no animosity between Tom Fulp and us, you have to create it to satisfy the image that we are outcasts, despite us never actually managing to piss off Tom Fulp before last year?

Well if we have to believe the screenshot I don't have to create anything, our normal course of action took care of it. (Normal meaning a spam event, some minor BBS trolling and Rupee putting oil on the flame.)

Not that I crave bad blood between us and Tom Fulp, like you're implying. All I'm saying is that if maintaining the relationship means having more cutesy rules pertaining to Newgrounds, then no thanks.

[joliet_jane]

more cutesy rules pertaining to Newgrounds, then no thanks.

Cutesy rules I would not like, but courtesy rules would be appropriate.

It's a business, dwarfinator, not just Tom's hobby. If users find that their movies don't get the attention they deserve on the site, then they will get upset and leave Newgrounds to find a better place to showcase their work. If a good artist leaves Newgrounds then the fulps lose a lot of money from the millions of hits that the artists' flashes would have attracted.

The ratio of the importance of this point and the understanding of this point is grossly lopsided.  Running a business is serious... business.
Success and popularity may be the very reason there is so much NG hate, which is a snooty hipster thing to do.

By the way, I haven't paid a cent to use NG as a viewer or "artist" all these years aside from buying 5 stickers.  That reminds me of something:

Comic Book Guy:  Last night's Itchy & Scratchy was, without a doubt, the
      worst episode ever. Rest assured I was on the internet
      within minutes registering my disgust throughout the
      world.
Bart: Hey, I know it wasn't great, but what right do you
      have to complain?
CBG:  As a loyal viewer, I feel they owe me.
Bart: What? They're giving you thousands of hours of
      entertainment for free. What could they possibly owe
      you? I mean, if anything, you owe them.
CBG:  Worst episode ever.

[StrangeClock]

Anyway, would it be a big sacrifice to, for the sake of keeping the peace, say no to non-Clock Day spam events? I mean of course filling up the Portal with crappy movies, not something like PSA Day or holidays when people are making movies with effort. Camel Day seemed to pretty much just be "I'm bored, let's spam something". I don't know if there's much fun to be had when it's just an exact repeat of Duck.fla Day and Wade has the whole situation suppressed before the day's over. Plus, doing it a second time gives the impression that we're going to be making a regular thing out of it.

I think it might still be funny, if our group wasn't so big that we force Wade to sit up and take notice.

[joliet_jane]

I mean of course filling up the Portal with crappy movies, not something like PSA Day or holidays when people are making movies with effort. Camel Day seemed to pretty much just be "I'm bored, let's spam something"

I didn't realize right away that camel day was going to be all spam.  I spent a few hours on mine, thinking that I was supposed to put in some effort.

[GreyClock]

Cutesy rules I would not like, but courtesy rules would be appropriate.

Examples?

The ratio of the importance of this point and the understanding of this point is grossly lopsided.  Running a business is serious... business.
Success and popularity may be the very reason there is so much NG hate, which is a snooty hipster thing to do.

By the way, I haven't paid a cent to use NG as a viewer or "artist" all these years aside from buying 5 stickers.  That reminds me of something:

Comic Book Guy doesn't contribute content. We do. A whole lot. We submit our work for free. We are giving Newgrounds thousands of hours (well maybe not thousands) of entertainment for free. And the times of Tom losing money each month are long gone. I'd wager they are actually making quite a bit of profit these days. We are partially responsible for generating ad revenue. So where is the profit sharing plan? You don't get a cut, unless you happen to win something by chance. Does Clock Day see some of the highest traffic rates each year? Yes. So, considering all this, you might say we deserve ourselves a little hosting and once-annual prize money, no?

Not that I really care what their policy is. I'm not doing it for the money. I don't care they deleted all the Camel movies. I don't care they are thinking of kicking us off their servers. It's their site. What I care about is us thinking we owe it to Tom Fulp to change or limit our ways now that he apparently has grown tired of us. We don't need him or Newgrounds, it's nothing more than the place we share our flash anyways.

I don't know if there's much fun to be had when it's just an exact repeat of Duck.fla Day and Wade has the whole situation suppressed before the day's over. Plus, doing it a second time gives the impression that we're going to be making a regular thing out of it.

I think it might still be funny, if our group wasn't so big that we force Wade to sit up and take notice.

What are you talking about? The past week was fun packed, all thanks to Camel Day.

[DWARFINATORclock]

I didn't realize right away that camel day was going to be all spam.  I spent a few hours on mine, thinking that I was supposed to put in some effort.

I actually thought it wouldn't be spam either at first.

[SageClock]

I assumed Camel day wasn't spam, actually. I figured it'd be something like Bill Murray day, where it's more a celebration of camels, and there's some spam, but mostly decent and a couple brilliant movies. Apparently I was wrong about that.

A part of me doesn't get the whole hoopla NG has about spam. Really, spam is a reality of the internet in general, and if it's such a problem on their site, even if it's only directed by a handful of groups, then maybe their system isn't ideal and they should redesign the system. Youtube deals with it by having many, many ways to highlight the better movies, allows you to subscribe to the artists you like the most so you can go to a page that shows you the latest stuff they've done (you can favorite an artist on NG, but you still have to manually check their pages each time you want to see if they've done something new), and make it really easy to share and embed movies on other sites, so even if it's off the "most recent list" in seconds, it still has plenty of opportunities to get noticed. On Newgrounds, it's still mostly "if it goes off the most recent list too quickly, you better be buddies with Tom and send him an email to get it posted on the frontpage or you are fucked".

But because it is like this still, and they seem to be too busy playing catch up with other features to address this issue, they shit a brick whenever the most recent list gets flooded and pushes off some potentially quality flash that doesn't get a chance to be viewed. And really, we probably should be more understanding about it. But it is effective at pissing off NG'ers, and that's apparently become our only  raison d'etre in the past three months.

But there's other ways to piss off the NG'ers without antagonizing the NG staff to the point of dropping our hosting and deleting our accounts, and we should probably spend more time encouraging those sort of activities instead of constant spam days. If we're so much better than NG, can't we be more creative in our approach?

I also think it would be a good idea to counteract the extreme negativity we've had recently with some really positive activities as well. Maybe another collab, maybe put together a new creation like the CD (we still haven't done a book yet, maybe I should look into that... Leek, can you get back to me on your status and maybe a copy of what you've done on the spam book?)

And there's nothing wrong with spamming the hell out of other sites, as we don't have any prior symbiotic relationship with their staff. Maybe we could organize some spam events on Youtube, or some other site?

And we absolutely need to reopen communications between the staff and Tom. We need an ambassador of some sort. We can't let potentially negative types be our only direct voice to Mr. Fulp. Leek did an amazing job at it, but have you continued to keep in contact with him?

[AlbinoClock]

After reading this thread I think I might take a break from the forums for a while. Maybe organize some things over IRC or something, I don't know. The CC seems pretty pathetic to me right now. Honestly, after all the fun I had with Anon in Boston yesterday, I've been sort of shocked into realizing how ridiculously serious business you've all gone. I'm gonna go have fun.

[Losperman]

Alright, I bought three cheesy cards and a giant pack of animal stickers. I got the animal stickers because it has both camels and lobsters.

I'm filling them out now and sending them out in the morning.

[DarkMatterClock]

We're coming in too fast, eject now before we crash!!!!!!!!

nevermind, fire away with the mailings

[Biggskoo]

yeah while i'm out protesting a religion with a bunch of nerds from the internet, what really screams 'serious business' to me is a little clock crew forums drama

i love you albino but cmoooooon

[DarkMatterClock]

biggs, out protesting scientology, i should have known.  did you get to wear a V for Vendetta mask?