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[ToyotaClock]

how do you feel about the conceptual clock crew government/state apparatus?

do you feel represented?

do you feel the clock crew is headed in the wrong direction?

is it time for a clock revolution?

do you think the clock crew should translate its new pseudo-political culture into a real-world democracy?

[PolyhedronClock]

do you feel represented?

at the moment, not too much. i just feel that too much is kept in the grid and the staff just are saying "trust us". it's kinda hard to take your guys word when you don't give us that much info about stuff

do you feel the clock crew is headed in the wrong direction?

i feel quite the opposite, it feels like that with clam in charge we're actually going somewhere again

is it time for a clock revolution?

not yet

do you think the clock crew should translate its new pseudo-political culture into a real-world democracy?

[VCRClock]

the clock crew administration is not democratically elected
it probably shouldn't ever be, at least not fully
everyone here is doing this clock crew thing in their free time, so slacking off/irresponsibility is to be expected. we're a bunch of hobbyists, not wise leaders.

nobody is particularly represented (other than people holding power). if what they're doing conflicts with what you think, you'll be dissatisfied. if you like what they're doing or don't care, you won't care about actually being represented (there'd be no need).

the clock crew has always been headed in the wrong direction. doing something about it means making a serious individual commitment to not sucking, and not sucking in a way that people will respect/want to imitate you.

it is always time to start a revolution. the clock crew thrives on instability, I'm not kidding. get that shit started by all means, but if you do, make sure that you have something real that the other clock crew doesn't. a solid community and/or star power is important. otherwise, people will just stay here and nothing will change. also, if you do it on clocktopia, would you mind offering a less-crazy forum skin?

I realize that last question is probably a joke, but seriously the clock crew is probably less ready for an irl implementation than it was like three years ago. not that the cc is doomed; we just need to actually do things.

[ToyotaClock]

There is only one way we will ever find satisfaction as a collective, and that's through non-hierarchical community moderation with no central authority.

[Marlin Clock]

When have we ever existed as a full-on crew without some kind of centralized admin-based command structure?

[miracle fruit]

i dont understand every time there is drama everybody acts like its the first time theres ever been drama in the clock crew

[clockradioclock]

also, if you do it on clocktopia, would you mind offering a less-crazy forum skin?

there are 6 skins to choose from, hope this helps.

[VCRClock]

When have we ever existed as a full-on crew without some kind of centralized admin-based command structure?

You could argue that the founding members of the Clock Crew were just a group of friends screwing around. No one of them was better than the other. As soon as you get into a group with a forum, though, an admin structure appears to keep undesirable people out.

There is only one way we will ever find satisfaction as a collective, and that's through non-hierarchical community moderation with no central authority.

This might be valid if it applies to a relatively small group allowed to create its own identity, which would remain relatively constant. If you move in a new direction, you'll lose people. If you gain new members, there will likely be increased conflict and disagreement. It's not fundamentally flawed, but it's not guaranteed problem-free. 4chan is not a perfect example of your ideal structure (since basically everyone is powerless rather than powerful), but it, like the Clock Crew, is full of people complaining that it 'used to be better.' New folks come in, change things, and old folks get their feathers ruffled.

The Clock Crew has already outgrown a single identity. People disagree on all sorts of stuff, including what we're actually supposed to be doing. Some of the people administrating now weren't especially fond of some of the people administrating before them. It's my opinion that we're too big, historied and diverse for the entire Clock Crew to exist in such a decentralized structure today, though it may work for a few members who are on the same wavelength.

[Marlin Clock]

You could argue that the founding members of the Clock Crew were just a group of friends screwing around. No one of them was better than the other. As soon as you get into a group with a forum, though, an admin structure appears to keep undesirable people out.

When have we ever existed as a full-on crew without some kind of centralized admin-based command structure?

.

[VCRClock]

.

All right, I'll agree that we haven't existed "as a full-on crew" without the forum/administrative structure (though I think I implied as much in that post), but I don't think that you made a particularly convincing argument by pointing that out.

The argument that we can't exist without the structure simply because we haven't is kind of weak, I think. I'd argue that there may have been points in our distant past when we could have -- just that now is not one of those points.

[VCRClock]

It's probably pointless to even have this discussion, though -- what it all breaks down to is extreme centralization versus extreme decentralization, and people have been having the same discussion about real-world government for centuries, if not millennia. Different people have different opinions on the style of government they prefer. The conclusion I come to is that it's unreasonable to expect any large group of people to totally agree on something like government. The smaller and more hand-picked the group, the lesser the possibility of serious disagreements.

TLDR: Find a small group of people you click with, and work with them on terms you can all agree to. When you stop agreeing, break the group up and repeat.

[BinaryClock]

I think we need to set up a parliamentary system, drawing districts based on where people are in the world. Because what the ClockCrew needs right now is more debate and power-jockeying.

[ToyotaClock]

This might be valid if it applies to a relatively small group allowed to create its own identity, which would remain relatively constant. If you move in a new direction, you'll lose people. If you gain new members, there will likely be increased conflict and disagreement. It's not fundamentally flawed, but it's not guaranteed problem-free. 4chan is not a perfect example of your ideal structure (since basically everyone is powerless rather than powerful), but it, like the Clock Crew, is full of people complaining that it 'used to be better.' New folks come in, change things, and old folks get their feathers ruffled.

The Clock Crew has already outgrown a single identity. People disagree on all sorts of stuff, including what we're actually supposed to be doing. Some of the people administrating now weren't especially fond of some of the people administrating before them. It's my opinion that we're too big, historied and diverse for the entire Clock Crew to exist in such a decentralized structure today, though it may work for a few members who are on the same wavelength.

My first argument would be that, in my humble opinion, the Clock Crew should never be more than a group of people who are like-minded. That is the most effective way to achieve the desired goal, or desired endpoint. I suppose the desired endpoint is debatable, but if we base it on the original Clock Crew, the endpoint is a group of like-minded individuals with a common goal (trolling Newgrounds) and a common methodology. Beyond that, the Clock Crew's purpose is open-ended, with our only unifying feature now being flash animation with common characters/history.

It is not my place to say how the Clock Crew should be run, or what the Clock Crew's purpose should be. However, as a fellow member, I offer my opinion and services to others who desire a change in the Clock Crew's state of affairs. My position, I feel, is fairly clear; a more egalitarian alternative would eliminate the admin/member tension that has plagued us for some time. I have no pretensions about this, it would not eliminate tension, but that wouldn't be the goal, for me. There would no longer be a one-sidedness to arguments, and no member would feel disenfranchised. And to be frank, we wouldn't lose any efficiency or speed by sacrificing a centralized administration.

honestly though it hardly matters, the real point to be made is that the Clock Crew is being taken way too seriously and that was the point of the thread. We're treating this place like it's a country and it isn't. If the Clock Crew experience is really being tarnished by hierarchical relationships, it's not inconceivable to address that issue. Instead of doing what we've been doing, whining to the already frustrated administrators and asking (incoherently) for change, let's solve the problem on our own. If people really want to experience the Clock Crew without the hierarchical tension then I am personally willing to contribute to the creation of a more egalitarian forum.

In other words, instead of bitching and moaning, create your own solution. I am confident that the administrators of this site would not begrudge us trying to solve problems on our own. And as you implied, it is always fun and interesting to try new things.

[ToyotaClock]

furthermore I'd like to state that my personal interest in such a development as I described is out of little more than curiosity and boredom, I'm curious as to how the Crew would be if it were managed to some degree by every member in absence of a central administration.

[Slurpee]

b//

I want o dive

[ToyotaClock]

goddamnit slurpee you are threatening my cultural intervention

[mauserclock]

im still up for banning everybody

[ToyotaClock]

clockz.info

[RobClock]

do you feel represented?

do you feel the clock crew is headed in the wrong direction?

is it time for a clock revolution?

[TapedeckClock]

clocktopia was made to just chill, not to revolt.

this whole revolt against the CC government is kind of bullshit.

i mean, everyone seems the same as i left it and all of the mods actually seem more cool.

i dont know, i guess i dont have anything to complain about