Initiative to create a Public Grid Archive

[AnkhClock]

I do need to see it, however I think this can all be sorted out by giving me grid access and Smod status.

[patriotclock]

I voted No. But I assume people who never had grid access will just vote yes and itll pass anyway

[RobClock]

Despite my longstanding desire to see what goes on in the grid, I side with the ideology that complete transparency would not do good things for the group.

Voted no. Keep the Grid as is.

[Thor]

EDIT: I'm dumb and didn't notice this was a two page thread. I thought Asshat's post was the first post and voted no. Now that I actually read the thread I would like to change my vote to yes :>

voted yes because everybody whined about making the grid public when i was admin

As long as PAST grid threads aren't put in the public archive. The anti-trangle stuff is tiresome enough already without giving them pages more ammunition.

[AlbinoClock]

People aren't jumping on every single thing the staff does, Corpsegrinder, they're jumping on most of the things you do.

[HeinekenClock]

Albino, come on.

I voted yes but on second thought I'm not that crazy about it now. The grid is private for a reason, and even if time passes, these topics should be kept private.

What I don't understand though is how often I hear people talk about grid access that are not on the staff. What is that about?

[AlbinoClock]

Albino, come on.

It's true. I've yet to see any criticism of any other staff member.


Why does it need to be private? So that when people disagree with what people are doing or saying they don't have the opportunity to speak up about it? What the hell is that?

[AbsintheClock]

I've been criticized, and I've also gotten complaints about other staff members too. The more stuff you do as a staff member the more folks are going to take issue with you.

[Sombra]

Still holding my vote for several reasons. One is that although I've supported more transparent staff discussion for as long as I've known about the grid, this type of change would take a lot of effort to implement and it'd also require more staff effort to maintain. I think that although staff positions are voluntary, it's important for us to remember that no one is being paid, that all our staff still has a life outside the crew (which means managing time spent on CC) and that the more we bog them down with bureaucratic shit, the less time they have to spend on actual decision making.

I think the majority of threads would not end up there. I'm just suggesting we sort threads into separate forums beforehand, rather than figuring it out afterword.

What if the clandestine grid threads would also become public, but have a much longer delay than the regular grid? Like 6 months to a year?

I think it'd be fine to delay threads that need to stay hidden for a while such as surprise changes/ contests for the forums, proposed NG antics etc. But then again some of these things, such as NG antics, would probably be better suited for a forum similar to our old green door. Or maybe we could just repurpose the clock crew collabs forum, who knows.
 

I just want people to know who they're voting for by the time the next election comes around. Protecting people on the staff's feelings is nice and all, but I think it's more important that we have an accurate representation of what people are actually saying and doing. If there's no accountability or real public  knowledge of who takes what position in what discussions and how they conduct themselves, we can't vote meaningfully on who should take part in that decision-making process.

I agree that a democratic election system is pretty arbitrary if we can't see the majority of our staff members' decisions or their grid voting practices. Honestly I don't think the staff should be worrying too much about popularity. We put them there because we believed they were responsible or capable of getting work done, not because we liked them personally (I hope). I think Slurpee has probably? banned me more times than any other staff member but I still gave him my admin vote because he always banned fairly and I think he genuinely demonstrated that he cared about improving the crew last time he was admin.

What I don't understand though is how often I hear people talk about grid access that are not on the staff. What is that about?

I think, at least in the past, non-staff members judged important enough to have their opinions voiced in the grid have been given access. Some of them went on to become staff at some point or another.
 

I've been criticized, and I've also gotten complaints about other staff members too. The more stuff you do as a staff member the more folks are going to take issue with you.

Like I said earlier, I think it's important that clocks vote with their head and not their heart. If a mod only bans justly and fairly, and works to better the crew during his time on the staff, he should win over a more popular clock who didn't really do anything with their moderation.

[Zeffy]

I agree that the grid should not be public and should be only be accessed by moderators, administration and advisors.  If there were to be complete access to the grid, there is a good chance it would backfire. This could easily open the door for more possible infighting, nitpicking and backseat modding. In the end, instead of more transparency, the decisions would be made through other modes of communication.

The cc has already come a long way in terms of electing moderators and being more opened with changes and this policy forum. None of this was around back in the original .com or .cc. I'd rather work hard, be more of a forum regular and contribute more to the site in order to have access to the grid.

[AnkhClock]

Uh actually you will be able to, that's what the record of Staff motions is for.

Well then implement that already!

But really, I don't need grid access, I've seen you guys bitch at each other debate in the forums, I doubt it's any more civilized in the grid. I'd hate for you guys to feel the need to temper down in order to make anything more palpable to the public.

Besides, I'm rather not feel like I have to read 10 pages of Ribs and Grey going at it.

[pop-tart]

For the Grid to go public (even if view only) would defeat the point of the Grid. Wouldn't it?

[Slurpee]

Well then implement that already!

wow great idea why didn't we think of that

[AnkhClock]

We already have.

wow great idea why didn't we think of that

Oh you mean the Policy forum? I'm pretty sure that Sombra in his post (and thus what I thought Ribs was referring to) was proposing an idea where we can see how the staff voted on specific issues (non-contest, of course). I'd be up for a voting record thing, though again I'm fine with the Grid discussions being private.

[Slurpee]

we have something really cool in the pipes that piney programmed
to let users know how the individual members of the elected staff fall on issues
it's a fully functional site feature that we've been using for a week and a half
it hasn't been rolled out for public viewing yet because it's not quite ready

patience. you'll all be able to thanklessly spit it back in our faces in due time.

[AnkhClock]

No I mean a public record of all grid vote initiatives.

Each motion, ban appeals rule changes the works.

we have something really cool in the pipes that piney programmed
to let users know how the individual members of the elected staff fall on issues
it's a fully functional site feature that we've been using for a week and a half
it hasn't been rolled out for public viewing yet because it's not quite ready

patience. you'll all be able to thanklessly spit it back in our faces in due time.

Oh. Well that sounds really cool.

My point still stands though.

[AnkhClock]

Which point that we should have this thing that we have or something else

The fact that since the thing has yet to be opened to the public it therefore cannot be considered fully implemented.

And you should do that.

At some point.

[Slurpee]

wow great idea why didn't we think of that

[AnkhClock]

Yeah why didn't you Slurpee I'm pretty disappointed and have half a mind not to vote for you come next election.

[Slurpee]

I'll just go ask piney to push the big red button that makes these thing happen
everybody be sure to thank ankh for this great idea