Initiative to create a Public Grid Archive

[AlbinoClock]

For as long as I can remember the general populace of the Clock Crew has been ignorant of the happenings of the Grid. Sometimes, this is with good reason, to keep a surprise under wraps or discuss something that could become explosive if it got out to the public at the moment. Much of the time, though, there's really no reason why the community shouldn't be able to see what's going on in there. Transparency is good. If we're electing staff, we ought tto have our own sort of CSPAN, so I propose the following.

Threads in the Grid, after a period of time, are moved to a Public Grid Archive visible to all members. Certain threads, like secret planning of things like an April Fool's joke or something similar that the staff wants to spring on everyone as a surprise, can be categorized as Secret and are exempt from being moved to the Public Archive. This is done by a staff vote in which a 2/3 majority is required to keep it hidden (in order to avoid factionalization and hiding of sensitive threads within the staff).  The specific period, being being between perhaps 2 weeks and a month or so (to be determined by the staff at their convenience), once the activity of the thread is over and any other concerns are out of the way.

Yea or Nay?

[AbsintheClock]

Also anyone who votes impulsively on this one way or another I swear to fuck I will come to your house and sell your kidneys to the Mexican drug cartels. Let the arguments play out for a little bit. We got two weeks to decide on these things folks.

[Biggskoo]

can i vote

[Biggskoo]

i voted

[AlbinoClock]

Is there some particular reason why you think this is a bad idea?

[AbsintheClock]

Because everyone will find out what an asshole he is.

[AlbinoClock]

Because everyone will find out what an asshole he is.

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[Biggskoo]

Because everyone will find out what an asshole he is.

no i actually would love for my posts to be visible to everyone and i almost voted yes because i don't want to deprive everyone of their comedic value

[Biggskoo]

can you just, like, keep the grid closed but release a volume of my posts every month?  make it a big event.

[AlbinoClock]

Would having a second, more clandestine grid promote transparency, or would it just be where all the threads went? I proposed having a waiting period because it would be better for people to see whole conversations than to pop in from time to time and view parts of them while they're actually happening. It would limit jumping to conclusions in favor of viewing the totality of the discussion.

As far as voting on things goes, the only time the staff has to vote is to make something secret, and it's a 2/3 vote rather than a simple majority so a small faction can't just go removing things from the public record. I would hope every thread doesn't need to have someone coming forward and insisting on a secrecy vote, because most threads shouldn't have to be secret.

If we're electing staff members, people need to know what those members are contributing to the staff. That's not going to happen if they hide their opinions from everyone. If you don't have the confidence to make your argument publicly, maybe you shouldn't be making it at all.

[DWARFINATORclock]

i voted yes because i think a lot of people (me included) would like to see what you guys are doing and what you are discussing

[RenegadeClock]

Would having a second, more clandestine grid promote transparency, or would it just be where all the threads went?

I think the majority of threads would not end up there. I'm just suggesting we sort threads into separate forums beforehand, rather than figuring it out afterword.

What if the clandestine grid threads would also become public, but have a much longer delay than the regular grid? Like 6 months to a year?

[AlbinoClock]

I think the majority of threads would not end up there. I'm just suggesting we sort threads into separate forums beforehand, rather than figuring it out afterword.

What if the clandestine grid threads would also become public, but have a much longer delay than the regular grid? Like 6 months to a year?

That's perfectly fine with me, though a year might be a bit long unless the situation really calls for it. I just want people to know who they're voting for by the time the next election comes around. Protecting people on the staff's feelings is nice and all, but I think it's more important that we have an accurate representation of what people are actually saying and doing. If there's no accountability or real public  knowledge of who takes what position in what discussions and how they conduct themselves, we can't vote meaningfully on who should take part in that decision-making process.

If there were a hidden second grid, I think there ought to be transparent, publicly-visible guidelines for what sort of thing does and doesn't belong in that forum.  I also think, if we're going to be viewing a live grid, it might be advisable to have a sort of meta-grid for user discussion of what's going on. Part of why I thought it would be a good idea to have an archive with posts after the fact is that you can see the whole discussion, from start to finish, not just an incomplete process. A discussion forum pertaining to discussions occurring in the grid should probably exist either way, but would be even more important if we aren't getting the whole finished thread at once.

[Topcatyo]

I voted yes because I do agree with need to have some amount of what goes on in the grid public.  Gotta know what the guys you voted for are doing.

I also agree that we should do a system other than just putting every thread out to the public because, as Renegade said, the staff would probably end up watching not being totally honest about their opinions since they know everyone will see what they're saying eventually.

Really it's a dodgy issue. I voted yes because I do want some accountability but I don't think we should go about it the way suggested.

[AlbinoClock]

I also agree that we should do a system other than just putting every thread out to the public because, as Renegade said, the staff would probably end up watching not being totally honest about their opinions since they know everyone will see what they're saying eventually.

I take issue with this. If your opinions are really that bad, the people who voted for you should know. We ought to have a right to know who we've elected and how they act. They may want to have a public face that differs from their actual one, but that's dishonest, so we shouldn't be setting up the system to assist them in that. The entire point is to see who is worth their salt and who isn't. Otherwise it's nothing but a popularity contest.

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

If we declassify the grid I want the entire history of the grid on display. Not just the threads made recently.

[AlbinoClock]

If we declassify the grid I want the entire history of the grid on display. Not just the threads made recently.

This is a capital idea.

[Losperman]

I voted no for the reasons Renegade stated (via White). If I am a staff member and we're voting on a contest, or evaluating people for position, or discussing specific members for whatever reason, I would want to feel free to voice my opinion about them without knowing that they may be offended by them at some point in the near future.

Even if I was saying something that a third party might not see as offensive, the person in question could still be hurt by it. Example: We're discussing adding a new mod and I say "Sage is an alright guy and all, but I don't think he posts enough." That's not very offensive, especially if it's true, but Sage might still feel bad that I didn't stick up for him and his abilities. I've never been the kind of person who likes to make people feel bad, so knowing that my opinion would later become public I'd be far less inclined to share my true feelings.

And I don't necessarily believe that just because I have that opinion means that I should want it to be public. I may, yes. There may be an open discussion about the candidates in which I say "Sage doesn't post enough." But that's my decision to post that. If there is no staff forum to discuss things more openly in, I would just keep all of my opinions to myself and only contribute by voting on a poll.

And, finally, I really don't see what would be so pressing or valuable about it other than to satisfy curiosity. There isn't some terribly important and urgent event happening that requires such transparency.

[Asshatclock]

I don't need to see it, feel free to talk about me behind my back whenever you want in there.

[AlbinoClock]

Contests and voting threads should obviously be exempt.