is he dead yet

[Marlin Clock]

Also I think, evolutionarily speaking, monkeys and other primates have been social creatures and work for the benefit of each other. Remember the common image of monkeys picking bugs out of each others' fur? Also, not to mention, some species of primate might not have the strength to fight off, say, an alligator, so sticking together would be more beneficial than to just go it alone.

There are unfortunately many easily made selfish explanations for cooperative behavior.

I.e. free bugs.

[VCRClock]

did u no....

waffle crisp is made by grannies

[AmberArachnidClock]

There are unfortunately many easily made selfish explanations for cooperative behavior.

I.e. free bugs.

you sound like my grandma

[VuBawlsClock]

i never posted this yet
Ã,Â¥
i feel so special

[Slurpee]

You talk like I've never taken a class on biology or learned of stabilizing selection. Also, you must realize that the first person to ever have the allele would only have one. this would give him a massive advantage as the heterozygotic form is highly successful in the presence of malaria, and is not greatly negatively affected by the change to his cells. Also, since he is heterozygous, his children are guaranteed to also be either SS Ss, so for the next generation there will also be no sicle cell individuals. Then, in the next generation, human social norms would dictate that most likely those children will not inbreed, producing another generation of non-recessive individuals. Of course that kind of allele would survive. It's evolutionarily advantageous, and in the heterozygous form it is more fit, thus the heterozygous form remains in the population. You're really doing nothing but proving the point.


You have to realize that mankind's current position flies in the face of evolutionary logic. We preserve our unfit individuals, despite their tax upon the rest of the population. It's a mean thing to say but the only reason recessive neurological diseases have remained prominent in human society is that they onset too late to be selected upon or we allow individuals with the disease to live longer than they would normally so that they can carry it to the next generation.

 I'm pretty sure he was married before the civil rights movement, right?

I didn't mean to give the impression I was talking down to you
I was literally recalling 7th and 10th grade science class, which is the extent of my formal academic knowledge on the subject, as I was typing that, and was spelling it all out just to make sure it made sense
I understand what you're saying and some of it's new information to me,
good points, and well made,
but even taking your arguments into account I'm still not seeing how this adds up to ruling out genetically-influenced selflessness.

sickle-cell survives because of its evolutionarily advantageous heterozygous form, I get that, but we still get people with SCD about 25% of the time when two carriers breed.

to point: why couldn't a hypothetical gene that influences altruism in its homozygous recessive form not ride on unrelated advantages of its heterozygous form?
I don't see why it couldn't ride in like SCD did, only instead of a disease, it's something really excellent.

again, not saying that that's what's happening, just questioning the scientific validity of ruling it out.

and I guess I should acknowledge at this point that my argument is predicated on selflessness not being a particularly common trait.

I don't know I feel like I'm being a dick here but when you say things like

If it does not have an advantage fitness-wise then it simply won't get passed on.

it flies in the face of my understanding of the nuances of natural selection.
to reiterate another part of my argument, I fail to see what could be termed evolutionarily advantageous about increasing an individual's chances of being a left-handed schizophrenic. it seems to me that this gene is not only not advantageous in terms of fitness ,but even kind of sucks.
but it's still around, because, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see how I can be, sometimes shit just slips through. which is why I think it stands to reason that altruism could be genetic, or at least genetically influenced.

[Steve]

I have returned momentarily to ask; Does anyone have that flash Zombie Lincoln made in which a person continues to roll through various scenes to that olde music? I want to show my friend it.

[Silly Putty Clock]

Here's why disadvantageous genes can still exist, to the best of my admittedly uneducated understanding:

Natural selection is not, in fact, survival of the fittest. It is survival of the "good enough".

That is all.

[Marlin Clock]

I didn't mean to give the impression I was talking down to you
I was literally recalling 7th and 10th grade science class, which is the extent of my formal academic knowledge on the subject, as I was typing that, and was spelling it all out just to make sure it made sense

Sorry.

I understand what you're saying and some of it's new information to me,
good points, and well made,
but even taking your arguments into account I'm still not seeing how this adds up to ruling out genetically-influenced selflessness.

sickle-cell survives because of its evolutionarily advantageous heterozygous form, I get that, but we still get people with SCD about 25% of the time when two carriers breed.

to point: why couldn't a hypothetical gene that influences altruism in its homozygous recessive form not ride on unrelated advantages of its heterozygous form?
I don't see why it couldn't ride in like SCD did, only instead of a disease, it's something really excellent.

again, not saying that that's what's happening, just questioning the scientific validity of ruling it out.

I guess i never thought of it like that. However, the thing is while many diseases can be pinpointed to one gene, behaviors are almost always not. That doesn't mean they aren't influenced by selection in one way or another, but it means they usually are more complicated.
I can only concede that I have never heard of stabilizing selection on a behavior, but there is no reason why it couldn't exist.

and I guess I should acknowledge at this point that my argument is predicated on selflessness not being a particularly common trait.

I don't know I feel like I'm being a dick here but when you say things like

 it flies in the face of my understanding of the nuances of natural selection.
to reiterate another part of my argument, I fail to see what could be termed evolutionarily advantageous about increasing an individual's chances of being a left-handed schizophrenic. it seems to me that this gene is not only not advantageous in terms of fitness ,but even kind of sucks.
but it's still around, because, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see how I can be, sometimes shit just slips through. which is why I think it stands to reason that altruism could be genetic, or at least genetically influenced.

Well, I guess it is too presumptuous to say there is no chance, just very little. Schizophrenia is very rare, right? There is also a chance that symptoms don't develop until after they have had offspring, right? The ironic reality about things like the reason why we age is that there is little selection pressure on not aging, as we are already past our reproductive stage. If something manifests after the reproductive age the less likely it will be removed from the population. That's why Huntington's, even though it is a dominant disease, still exists, because its symptoms do not manifest until mid to late adulthood. Also, the tricky thing about behaviors is that the environment usually plays just as important a roll as genetics. Someone can be prone to schizophrenia in some ways but it doesn't guarantee they will be schizophrenic.

Well I guess that basically answers against my own arguments, huh.

[Topcatyo]

I have returned momentarily to ask; Does anyone have that flash Zombie Lincoln made in which a person continues to roll through various scenes to that olde music? I want to show my friend it.

It's from that bigass thread where it started out with Dwarfinator and Zombie Lincoln fighting and ended with Hitler having his head explode.

I'm going to bed so I'm not gonna try finding it right now but if someone else wants to chip in yeah go for it.

[Marlin Clock]

I believe I successfully managed to be so long-winded that even the people I was actually responding to didn't want to friggin bother with that shit.
That's not a good thing[/sad]

I couldn't think of much more real hard evidence to keep fighting some of my claims so i just dropped them.

[Sombra]

Marlin I aint pointing any fingers but

[Sombra]

whnen tje fuck we playing L$D

[Sombra]

with tompatyo

[Slurpee]

L$D

[U2]yDl0qPfkSRw[/U2]

[Slurpee]

tom patyo

[U2]aowSGxim_O8[/U2]

[Kombucha]

falso whoever made that 'you spin my head right round right round when you go down' you managed to sodomize that song more than meatspin did that's really talent

Flo Rida

[Slurpee]

Flo Rida

I see flo and I think flobots and the only song flobots ever made
[U2]afX6VYn48KE[/U2]

then I remember how overplayed it was and get a little mad but only a little because it's pretty good

[Steve]

It's from that bigass thread where it started out with Dwarfinator and Zombie Lincoln fighting and ended with Hitler having his head explode.

I'm going to bed so I'm not gonna try finding it right now but if someone else wants to chip in yeah go for it.

Apparently it was hosted on imageshack, which stopped letting .swf's be uploaded yonks ago. Shit.

[Slurpee]

I vaguely recall hearing that at some point so rejoice in that it is not overplayed to me. That's the cool thing about empathy is that you can be happy for the good things that happen to others like a song you like not being overplayed to someone else isn't it great? Aren't you lucky!

my happiness for you is conditional on your ability to enjoy the song

do you enjoy the song

[Topcatyo]

I could swear that "when you go down" version is done by the guy who made the original. He's remade the song, like, a million times apparently and also had surgery to make his face look like a woman's without getting an actual sex-change because he wanted to do it that way.