Quote from: SageClock;1358666Well primarily what you say over and over again is "the admins don't do anything, we need more admins", even while we're doing our jobs and getting things taken care of fairly quickly (instead of unimportant things like a BBS skin, or "adding features", which in another post you'll claim we have too much crap and are too cluttered). And then if we don't respond in five minutes or don't argue each sentence of your extremely repetitive posts and mostly vapid posts, you'll go "SEE!!!?!! FURTHER PROOF WE NEED MORE ADMINS!" and post yet another thread saying pretty much the same damn thing, but from a slightly different angle.

I've never said we have too much crap, I've never said we're too cluttered. I do think that the site is damn near impossible to navigate, that it could use a simpler layout for slower connections and machines, and that it might be nice if some of the projects that get a bunch of hype (like the credit system) actually got finished instead of abandoned. You guys never actually address my concerns, you fucking make up concerns that I don't have and address those or twist my words so that you can make a witty retort.

Real fucking mature.

QuoteIt's not a straw man (because I'm simplifying or misrepresenting your position here, this is outside of your argument. this is your technique, not your content. and i addressed the content in the first paragraph). It IS what you guys are doing (even if subconsciously), and there's enough proof on this BBS there's pretty much no way you can refute this, man.

You don't seem to know what a logical fallacy is. To use a logical fallacy is to attempt to back a claim using fallacious logic. When questioning why we need more admins, you are met with numerous reasons, which you have apparently chosen to ignore rather than address. Logic pertains to the requirements for making a claim, not to how often I attempt to present an argument. You are executing a strawman argument by suggesting that I am attempting to back my claim with repetition, which I'm not doing.

QuoteOkay, you're doing it in a calculated way; you're not going "okay, if we repeat this X number of times, then we win!" but, just like... Rush Limbaugh, for example, it's part of your overall, unplanned strategy because you see it gets results from other people. You've already got at least some people, like in this very thread, going "oh, it'll take the admins six months to remove his medals", when obviously there's no reason it takes that long.

Just because you didn't bother to read my reasons doesn't mean I didn't give you any. Which is strange because I could have sworn you replied to at least a couple of them, albeit rather dismissively.

QuoteNow that's not to say that there's absolutely no way we could benefit from more admins. Admins are more likely to help than hinder. But there's not an OVERWHELMING need for new admins right away,

There's never going to be an OVERWHELMING need for admins. This is a fucking forum. There's no overwhelming need for anything because this isn't a survival based system. It's pretty damn pointless to restrict admin privileges to two people who are too busy to put much time into it. I appreciate that you guys do what you do, but even when I was just asking for ANY admins you were both really hesitant and I had to harp on about it forever just to get the time of day. That's what I don't like. This isn't just your community, its ours too, and it's selfish of you to refuse to let it have a regularly updated website just because you don't think it's important.

Quoteand no one has really made themselves out like they really want the job, except you, just you, who is resorting to constant harrasment and are showing pretty obvious favoritism with the guys that agree with you so much I'm really don't think it would be a good idea to put YOU in charge anymore.

Why would anyone make themselves out like they want the job? That just makes you guys decide that they shouldn't be able to have it. Raising concerns is whining and offering to help is making a grab for power. It's absurd.

As far as bias is concerned, if I was biased in the way you're suggesting I wouldn't have banned Lambda the other day. I wouldn't have warned kodiak or lazydoctor before banning them, and a hell of a lot more people would be banned from this site.

You jump to an awful lot of conclusions about my motives for a guy who doesn't seem to bother reading my posts. That or you're just lying about my arguments, god forbid. Skimming, perhaps?

QuoteSure, you may be passionate, and usually level-headed, but you've been going about this in a way that's counterproductive (and this is coming from a guy who was mostly in support of you becoming an admin last week. you were doing a pretty good job of persuading me until recently.)

Counter-productive how? The first thing I tried to do was bring it to you guys in the grid. I tried that three times. The first time, if I remember correctly, it was mostly dismissed and Renegade left. The second time Renegade was added as an admin, then freaked out and left again. The third time Leek toyed with the idea for a while and we even came up with a list of people, but a month later when I talked to him he was back to the "we don't need one" song and dance.  

That's when I brought it up in general and then eventually volunteered to do it when it seemed apparent that no one else was going to step up.

I tried to take care of it in private, but you guys wouldn't have that, so I brought it out to the public forum to see what the rest of the community thought and a lot of them agreed with me. If you guys had actually taken the time to communicate with the rest of the staff when they address concerns to you, I never would have had to take it to the rest of the community. We could have talked about it amongst each other over the course of a week or so and figured out what to do. That's how we used to do it when we actually had an operational staff with goals and ambitions beyond "make sure the forum doesn't explode and guilt people into making flash when they complain".

The cause of this isn't that you guys suck or are unfit to be administrators or anything like that, it's that your lives are too busy. That's understandable. It's good that you have busy lives, but we need administrators who are here frequently and are trying to push things forward. We need people to be arranging staff meetings and figuring out what the next contest is going to be, if it's going to have prizes, etc. Somebody to harp on the staff about judging contests and stuff. If you have time to do all that shit frequently then go ahead and do it, but something tells me you don't. If that's the case, it's time to let someone else help.

Quote from: Unreal Maddox;1358674You're not talking about JUST a change, but an entirely different ClockCrew.

Uh, no. Just this site with a more active staff, like we had a year or two ago.

QuoteThe current status is do whatever you want. Who is stopping you from being an old school flaming funny guy? No one.

I might be able to get away with it, but a lot of people get banned for it. Regardless, the issue of the CC changing and the issue of .cc needing more admins are entirely apart from one another and have different solutions. The solution to .cc needing more admins is admining more people, whereas the solution to undesirable changes in the CC is InternetCult.

QuoteAnd people can't avoid these threads when they're the only ones getting attention and posts.

Uh, yes they can. All they have to do is not click on the thread.

Quote from: CadillacClock;1358681I will sum up my feelings, at this very moment: I dislike the hypocritical bullshit that is accepted amongst members of the Clock Crew. We have come to such a point where the Clock Crew is not even a vague resemblance of its former self. It represents all what it once disdained and hated. There are only a handful of new and old members who resemble anything of the past.

I can accept that the Clock Crew is an artistic community but it also had a foundation and conduct to go by. Now it seems as if we are more accepting of users than a Deviant Art forum.

I get your problem, but I don't understand, what an additional admin can change about this? People like Albino are able to ban people they dislike already, with their current mod-power. I just don't see why everyone makes such a big deal out of this admin-status.

PS:
And seperate from that, what is all the "We totally hate Leek since he has never done anything but destroing the CC ever!!!!!"-bandwagon shit about?

Quote from: IcedTeaClock;1358738I see the problem you have, but I don't understand, what an additional admin can change about this? People like Albino are able to ban people they dislike already, with their current mod-power. I don't see why everyone makes such a big deal out of this admin-status.

The difference is the ability to modify the site.

QuotePS:
And seperate from that, what is all the "We totally hate Leek since he has never done anything but destroing the CC ever!!!!!"-bandwagon shit about?

I can't recall seeing much in the way of "we totally hate leek". A lot of people certainly disagree with some of his decisions.

God, I'm so tempted to reply and let myself get dragged into yet another 3 hours of arguing, but you're right, I have to start being more mature.

There's more important things to do on the CC site besides argue with you Albino. Clock Day is in almost 30 days and I really wanted to get the Clock Crew Movie Database launched by that day, but I've easily lost a lot of that time I have set aside for the CC trying to defend myself instead of actually getting shit done.

My apologies.

Have fun with your threads (and for the record, I've read every post you guys have made up to this point, but there's soo many of them, how can you expect me to keep absolutely everything straight and who said what and who did what?). This time I WON'T be reading them. You've made you points, I've read them, now things will or won't happen. Further discussion on my part is a waste of time.

Stop whining so much guys. We are a flash community, there have been a lot of contests and informative frontpage posts recently and as a flash community that's all we need. The clock crew is only stuck in this anti productive stage because of all the drama.

Why the hell do you people focus so much energy on defending yourselves when I'm not even attacking you? If one of you two would quit fucking dodging every question and putting words into my mouth this shit would be resolved by now.

You guys have this kind of shoddy leadership and expect me not to speak up about it? Fuck this shit, I tried.

Let's just shut down both sites.

Quote from: AlbinoClock;1358735The cause of this isn't that you guys suck or are unfit to be administrators or anything like that, it's that your lives are too busy. That's understandable. It's good that you have busy lives, but we need administrators who are here frequently and are trying to push things forward. We need people to be arranging staff meetings and figuring out what the next contest is going to be, if it's going to have prizes, etc. Somebody to harp on the staff about judging contests and stuff. If you have time to do all that shit frequently then go ahead and do it, but something tells me you don't. If that's the case, it's time to let someone else help.

[...]

Regardless, the issue of the CC changing and the issue of .cc needing more admins are entirely apart from one another and have different solutions. The solution to .cc needing more admins is admining more people, whereas the solution to undesirable changes in the CC is InternetCult.

Didn't saw that post before I made mine.
But those 2 paragraphs finally answered my last questions, about whats actually going on here, pretty well.


and:

Quote from: SageClock;1358755I've read every post you guys have made up to this point, but there's soo many of them, how can you expect me to keep absolutely everything straight and who said what and who did what?

Quote from: AlbinoClock;1358761If one of you two would quit fucking dodging every question and putting words into my mouth this shit would be resolved by now.

You need to try to get some understanding for the other side, instead of feeling kinda insulted whenever someone doesn't completely agree with an argument.

Whut!?

Quote from: Zombie Lincoln;1358721

Quote from: CadillacClock;1358777I've stopped caring myself though

You certainly have not stopped caring.  You have been posting in this thread quite a bit about these issues.

Personally I think I would make a great admin ^w^d!

Quote from: Lala Satalin Deviluke;1358809Personally I think I would make a great admin ^w^d!

I support this notion.

Quote from: Lala Satalin Deviluke;1358809Personally I think I would make a great admin ^w^d!

yes

CadillacClock, being apathetic is hardly a label you could put on Leek, and even if he was; Comparing to past Admins that would be a positive trait when nearing these turbulent times (ClockDay).
Even so, rushing things will not bring solutions without risk and the risk is worse than any possible reward could compensate for taking.

(bear in mind this text bellow is from judging multiple topics and not only conserning heiniken.)
Also, clocks like HeinikenClock have, for better or for worse, as much of a right to hang on this site as you. He has the right to learn from his (many) mistakes, to evolve  and trial himself untill one day when he can contribute to this site to the point where his past errors are shaded and forgotten: Much like many clocks past mistakes have.

None of us, no matter age in the crew or amount of contribution. Are flawless, all of us once opend flash and internet explorer for the first time. How can we expect new clocks to learn and finally contribute if we ban or throw them of the site?

Sorry if I went overboard with this post, might be abit overkill.
I just do not see the reason for throwing torches and waving pitchforks at these relativly quiet times.
"Love thy enemy, giveth; without concern for reward: And you shall be; Sons of the Lord most High!"
Lastly do not take this personally, {{{CadillacClock}}}

Let's just go over the facts shall we instead of participating in these redundant arguments:

- People who are not satisfied with the current state of this site are free to join InternetCult

- InternetCult offers an alternative for many members and is growing very quickly

- If Clockcrew.cc wants to keep the majority of their membership they'll need to address these issues, regardless of if they want to or not

- Hello

I vote for Cadillac as scapegoat.

Quote from: uɪɥɔɹn;1358838- Hello

Is it me you're looking for?

i have no idea whats going on with all this breaking apart bologna

Threads like this make you look like politicians guys. Stop for your mental security.