marvel's biggest bone-liner

[Slurpee]

this part of the Beetlejuice theme

https://youtu.be/oZktSPrGSck?t=108

quote if u agree

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also I never noticed before but bits and pieces of this sound like bits and pieces of POWERHOUSE by Raymond Scott

[Slurpee]

I just watched the talented mr ripley last night and holy shit its probably one of my favourite movies already lol

generally I really like character study films, where theres obviously other interesting characters, but it focuses more on how they affect the protagonist and not on why they are the way they are in the same way it treats it's main character. I've talked in this thread a while ago about more reserved and harder to understand protagonists, mainly within the context of computer games and how I think theres alot of potential for cool stuff with player interacton there, but mr ripley is an amazing example of that kind of story done right.

id never heard of it until a friend reccomended it to me and from the dvd cover it looked more like a quirky period drama than anything but its less downton abbey, more american psycho or taxi driver lol. I was worried that the point of the movie was going to be pretty one note, but it develops on its ideas and themes pretty well throughout the whole movie. I was pretty worried it was going to run into the one hour photo problem where it just turns into a pretty mid crime thriller about halfway through, but it never feels like that, theres thematic moments punctuacting the whole movie, and i found the whole idea of placing your entire worth into someone else to the point of becoming them really interesting.

the film mean creek kinda had the same problem as one hour photo did where it seemed to have a real idea, like a real theme, but it just didn't know how to iterate on it, or how to explore it more. mean creek felt pretty one note, because after the mid point of the movie nothing really changes, the characters don't really learn anything i thought, and literally i thought i was about half way through the movie and then it ended lmao (although the ending was super good).

Its actually a problem I have with some games too, stuff like Deus Ex, or Bioshock both have really good themes (I'd say Deus Ex is about god, and that Bioshock is about the power of science and the meaning of freedom), and while those games explore their themes super well, although Bioshock starts to lose it's direction a wee bit after it's utterly brilliant and fucking iconic plot twist, a game that's pretty often compared to them (mainly Deus Ex) is MGS2, but as mind blowing and borderline prophetical as the stuff near the end of that game is, it's only really near the end. The rest of the game is fun too but I feel like a little more of that SPICE from the end of the game peppered throughout the prior events would have really made it a masterpiece, even though it's already like an 8/10 game lmao.

if you like character studies you might like Take Shelter, Naked (1993), Withnail and I, Hesher, maybe Falling Down
but it sounds like you might prefer them to be, like, good good movies, so if you haven't seen them, Adaptation, There Will Be Blood, Black Swan, and Drive are all treats with complicated/nuanced main characters
ALTHOUGH, Adaptation plays a little trick that, if you miss what they're doing, can make it feel like it really loses its mind in the last half, but if you catch it it just makes it hilarious
uh
A Clockwork Orange, Bad Lieutenant (both of them)... I haven't actually seen Raging Bull but I think I'm supposed to recommend Raging Bull

re: video games
I have a lot of thoughts but
in general, I think video games are a really young medium, and, in a rush to be taken seriously, enthusiasts tend to gravitate towards titles that have the most obvious themes, rather than the ones that approach their themes with thoughtfulness and finesse. not a specific slam on anything, just a general vibe I get.
(God of War and Last of Us are about BEING A DAD, WOW. zap pow comics aren't just for kids anymore)

Bioshock I think would be an all-timer if it didn't have the (perfunctory, vestigial) "moral choice" system, and if it had the balls to just end in Ryan's office
somebody in here (Flounderman?) says System Shock 1 remains the best of the -shock games but I haven't played it
but I do think Bioshock's handling of the twist was... uniquely potent, even if I think System Shock 2 was overall a more interesting game, because you the player did, in fact, thoughtlessly do whatever atlas told you to whenever he said "would you kindly", and the player losing control during a cutscene at the same time the player character is losing control is a rare and powerfully executed bit of *shouting through a megaphone and brandishing a gun* LUDONARRATIVE CONSONANCE, and ryan ordering his own death just to make a point about freedom is both a powerful character moment for him, and idiotic in a kind of darkly humorous way that leaves the player with a lot to think about... (or it would, if the game didn't keep going)

in the past, I'd have totally given it up for Deus Ex, but there are a lot of ways that it's not aging super well- checkpoints where it's basically just assumed that you killed a bunch of people from x group, that weird thing in Paul's apartment where whether or not Paul lives isn't determined by if Paul actually lives (he's invincible) but whether or not you leave through the window, the pretty fucky layout of the hong kong level where even learning what the main mission is requires talking to some random npc outside of the luminous path, the frankly laughable assumption that authoritarian powers derive their power from obfuscation through complexity rather than simple vertically-integrated power structures without a lot of checks and balances or messy human elements, the idea that if the government funded the creation and distribution of a vaccine for a global plague that the main cause of social unrest would be that people want it too much

I haven't played mgs2 since it came out but I do remember it blowing my mind and being a gateway into literature with similar themes like Illuminatus! and The New York Trilogy
and I've seen the memes about how it correctly predicted information noise but...  eh. there were so many goddamned philosophical concepts in that game, and that was... like, one of them. and it wasn't a new idea, dezinformatsia dates back to the cold war. Epic 2015 from 2005 did a much cleaner job predicting how it would become the pervasive problem that it is, even if the specifics are laughably wrong. from what I recall the game made a much bigger to-do about, one, existentialism and our identities being manufactured by trusted authorities without our knowledge or consent, and two, global nuclear proliferation creating a state of highly precarious geopolitical uncertaintyyyyywwwait I'm describing the justification for invading Iraq aren't I? 🤔 hm. ok, point Kojima

[PannacottaClock]

Well prey (2017) is the best -shock game and it doesn't even have a story and spoiler it's a good game

[Slurpee]

Well prey (2017) is the best -shock game and it doesn't even have a story

haha

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

I played deus ex for the first time a few weeks ago and it was an incredible experience, I think I gotta play thief now because of that. idk why people don't play vanilla deus ex, a mod to make it work with modern graphics cards is fine but otherwise it's perfect as it is. the mansion was SUPPOSED to lack enemies. the original director even had to make the devs stop adding them. I never stopped having fun or thinking what I would do next with the base game, even when power creep turns the game into a regular fps, hell that felt like a reward. would be nice to have all those story options and consequences they couldn't fit into the game but it's good as it is. I gotta read that dev bible or whatever it was one of these days. I played mgs2 again some years back and the story held up but the bad guy team wasnt nearly as cool as I thought they were back at release. they're fine but it's a step down from 1 and 3. I forgot how dumb and gullible fortune was. I'll always have a soft spot for fatman though. on the gameplay side I wish the different areas of the rig had their own visual identity and fighting an army of metal gears was a giant slog but it's still a great game overall. it's a damn good time. so is deus ex, they're both damn fine times. damn good fine. where else do I get to taze children or fight a bisexual cybervampire? nowhere. anyways I'm just glad nothing any of these games talk about was relevant before or after the bush presidency. thank god the good guys are in charge now.

also system shock 1 is the clunkiest shock game that isn't ultima underground and I still love it the best. it does what it tries to do so damn well, the garish aesthetic and awkward controls actually add to the experience, but I don't blame anyone for waiting on the remake. the demo seemed faithful from what I played of it. it's even colorful like the old one! I expected black or grey and red details with nothing else. contrary to popular belief there are other acceptable horror color schemes besides "flounderman".

also also prey 2017's dlc sounded like a terrible idea to me but then I loved it. I thought the time limit and randomization would detract from the fun of exploration but it actually enhances it. it's almost a separate game on it's own and I wish more DLC was like that instead of "here's the REST of your meal sir only 19.99".

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

that weird thing in Paul's apartment where whether or not Paul lives isn't determined by if Paul actually lives (he's invincible) but whether or not you leave through the window,

they put in an extensive fucking army of agents outside his apartment door to discourage you from doing anything except leaving through the window and I killed every single one. if you challenge me to do or not do something I'm gonna fucking do it. it was a net loss on supplies and I didn't even care.

[PannacottaClock]

I could write extensively about Prey (2017) and its lack of story. Sure it is about the nonsensical philosophy behind teaching an alien to love (aliens aren't real?? Why should I care) but where it really excels at is showcasing what bored engineers get up to in their spare time. The protagonist of the game is a gun that shoots glue balls and he's accompanied by the nerf gun of a thousand different applications and this all creates the perfect playground (there are also alien powers but again they aren't real so i couldn't bring myself to break immersion and take then and anyway it's way more impressive to level up the skill where your character mods his brain to be able to lift a metric ton of garbage)

I never could get into the DLC i guess it did feel like the time limit was too restrictive. Do you think the good folks at Arkane used this as inspiration for Deathloop? From what I gather the premise is pretty similar. That one I'm more interested in because I know nothing about it

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

I like how every character in prey has bad skin except the protagonist. I don't think I could immerse myself in that game so well if everyone else wasn't ugly and I wasn't handsome. it's just like real life! so many games see a power fantasy as making you more powerful, or giving you the options to become more powerful, but why can't I just be better looking than everyone else?

still, the best face aesthetically is your brother. he's no looker but he's just so interesting to look at. it's a good character design and I loved his voice too.

[Slurpee]

anyways I'm just glad nothing any of these games talk about was relevant before or after the bush presidency. thank god the good guys are in charge now.

lol

[Slurpee]

that weird thing in Paul's apartment where whether or not Paul lives isn't determined by if Paul actually lives (he's invincible) but whether or not you leave through the window,

they put in an extensive fucking army of agents outside his apartment door to discourage you from doing anything except leaving through the window and I killed every single one. if you challenge me to do or not do something I'm gonna fucking do it. it was a net loss on supplies and I didn't even care.

see I killed all of them and then left through the window because it was a shorter route to where I wanted to go and was very annoyed that paul died anyway and I didn't find out why until years later

and the flipside of that is, since paul is flagged as invulnerable, you can just lock yourself in his secret snack cabinet for the entire fight, then just walk out the front door after paul kills everybody and the game thinks you rescued him

[Slurpee]

I think I played Mooncrash, like, too long after I'd played the main game so I didn't remember the basic moment to moment gameplay very well, and also that I wasn't paying enough attention, because I keep hearing good things about it but my memory of it is mostly just hopping around looking for where I was supposed to go next while listening to old red letter media videos

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also you might be able to fight a bisexual cybervampire in vampire the masquerade bloodlines, not sure

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I always do my first play of a wrpg or immersive sim as, like, what do I think I would actually do in this situation?
so my first play of Prey I didn't use any of the alien powers because injecting yourself with alien goop just seemed like such an insanely terrible idea on the face of it
and I was tempted later on as they got cooler and cooler and the returns on the non-alien powers got lamer and lamer but that just convinced me that if they ever successfully tempted me into it, then at the end of the game they'd pull my pants down and be like "haha your blood turned you into a messed up alien boy! that's what you get for wanting to have fun with cool superpowers!" or whatever
but it turns out that doesn't happen and, as you know, the plot twist anyway is that YOU are Bugsnax

anyway the alien powers are hilarious because if you can't get into a room you can like turn into a tea cup and roll in through the mail slot. complete nonsense

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

anyway the alien powers are hilarious because if you can't get into a room you can like turn into a tea cup and roll in through the mail slot. complete nonsense

this is the essential prey2017 experience

[Slurpee]

I know it's completely unrelated but I watched the civvie11 video on Prey 2006 and it looks way more interesting than I assumed
[u2]Ngbwe1amOlk[/u2]

it basically had me at BÖC, but also, taking place on an indian reservation, and friggen Art Bell??? why doesn't anybody ever talk about the cool stuff in this game

def. gonna wait until I forgot some of the stuff from the video and then check it out for myself

[FLOUNDERMAN_CLOCK]

I was so damn excited for that game reading about it in magazines and then I didn't have a good enough pc or a 360 at the time so I didn't get to play it. I had a similar experience with bioshock but I actually remembered to play that once I could. seeing that video's thumbnail in my youtube feed got me to finally download it but then I forgot about it until this very moment.

[Slurpee]

if halloween is all hallow's eve, is today all hallows?
also, what's a hallow?

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is phantomcat a hallow?
should I have gotten him a present?

[PhantomCatClock]

we do the gift exchange at midnight on halloween, so if you want to be both pedantic and uncharacteristically open-minded for a pedant it happens today



what i'm saying is it's not too late to get me a present